Doctors Who Kill
Episode 6
When you go to the doctor, you TRUST that your doctor is going to save your life, right!? Well, not if you're Kevin... And not after you listen to this week's true crime podcast episode!
We're starting off with Brandon's tale of Linda Hazzard, an American quack nicknamed "The Starvation Doctor." This true crime goddess grew a cult-like following and convinced her devotees to endure some truly trying restrictions. This is not your mother's intermittent fasting! She basically took early 1900s Gwyneth Paltrow types and convinced them not to eat. Because that doesn't sound like a recipe for disaster! Talk about Fatphobia, LINDA!
Then, Kevin is taking the wheel to introduce us to "The Angel of Death," a lovely guy really. Dr. Harold Shipman, A.K.A: buttlicker, was a serial killer who found his victims through his patients. When his own mother was diagnosed with lung cancer and died when he was just seventeen, Harold became a bit obsessed.
It seems that this sicko may have been replaying his own mothers' death through these intermediaries. This true crime story will have you making sure you're present at your parents' doctor appointments moving forward!
Tune in to learn exactly why you should never go to the doctor! Just kidding...unless you're Kevin. And if you're thankful to finally have a gay perspective on true crime, don't forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. Also, share it with your friends because otherwise, you are a loser!
Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:28:15
Kevin + Brandon
Welcome to Homicide, The podcast. I'm Kevin. And I'm Brandon. And we are alone today. My God, Emma. I think we're alone now. That doesn't seem to be in here today since I don't think too much because you don't have the right. fuck, Yeah. Anna, You're not here. You're not here. We can't ask you how you're doing because, you know, we don't know what we do know.
00:00:28:16 - 00:00:55:09
Kevin + Brandon
We are left without supervision in our own apartment, on our own equipment. Whatever you're going to do without snooze. Hopefully this episode will be as good as usual without it. Perhaps. Yeah. Well, hey, this is episode six. We have initially established. You got it right. Thank you. I learned from the embarrassment from the lost. But hello everyone. Welcome to episode six of the Homicide.
00:00:55:13 - 00:01:19:09
Kevin + Brandon
The Homicide of Homicide, the podcast. Again, your hosts, Kevin and Brandon, and our producer Anna is just you know, it's the week of Thanksgiving, so she is enjoying her time. She's being thankful away from us. Just probably thankful to be. She's like, I'm over it. Fuck those do anyway. So we just want to give a shout out and say thank you for following along on our journey and listening to the podcasts.
00:01:19:09 - 00:01:34:22
Kevin + Brandon
It has been an interest. Well, Brendan, what is what's new in our lives? Because we've had a little bit of a interesting couple of weeks. I feel like that was a weird cut. You were talking about something that you'd completely change. You know, my mind went somewhere else and I was like, I was feeling like at the same moment I was like, I have to burp and fart.
00:01:34:22 - 00:01:49:21
Kevin + Brandon
And I was like, Do it. She was like, Do either do I know? And then I was like, I'll just suck. I mean, so it's just you and I here doesn't mean that we don't have an audience with somebody. I need to be careful about these things. But you've already observed that almost every single podcast recording about, God, she's here.
00:01:49:23 - 00:02:10:27
Kevin + Brandon
But if you know me, you do know that burps are a thing consistent. There are things for everybody. But I think for for most me, they're a little aggressive. So anyway, a couple of announcements. Brandon Yes. Do you want to talk about our new Minnesota? They're coming out. yeah, Kevin just said it. We're having Minnesota. They're going to be coming out.
00:02:10:29 - 00:02:29:19
Kevin + Brandon
So I'd be like, okay, I will go, Well, this is where he gets so impatient. So we decided that we are going to start throwing out some Minnesota occasionally here and there. They're not going to be something that's going to happen all the time. But we would love to get some feedback from you all, not just really get some feedback with stories from you all.
00:02:29:20 - 00:02:53:17
Kevin + Brandon
That's a better way to say that is we are doing our own type of hometown murders concepts. Are you ready? Are you ready here? I'm going to do another hometown murders at the southern border in front of here. I can just make up our own noise and it's kind of fun. So we're going to be doing Minnesota episodes featuring stories that you guys give us.
00:02:53:17 - 00:03:22:11
Kevin + Brandon
So send in some messages to murder at Homicide podcast dot com, or just go to our website and type out some information on the form and let us know. We would love to hear from you. Yes. Which is exciting too, because our very first hometown murder will actually be airing on November 30th, which is literally just a few days from now when this episode releases, because we did have somebody reach out to us already and share kind of an actually an open case, which is interesting.
00:03:22:12 - 00:03:51:09
Kevin + Brandon
They have not done that. We have not done an open case. So we have to make sure that we are as informative as we can be because since this is an open case, we don't want to sound dumb, which inevitably we will. We will. But but it's fine. And here we are. Yeah, exactly. So do Lookout. So episode six comes down, comes out, comes out on November 28th, and then that Thursday, November 30th will be our very first in Minnesota, which I'm really excited about.
00:03:51:09 - 00:04:11:12
Kevin + Brandon
It will really only consist of hometown murders. And so currently we have one. So I don't know. Yeah, maybe go ahead and send them in. Where do you send them? Brandon Well, I did mention earlier, but I will mention it again. You can email us at Murder or Homicide podcast dot com or head over to our website and you can fill out a form on our page.
00:04:11:19 - 00:04:34:02
Kevin + Brandon
You can also write us a Facebook direct message at Homicide, the podcast on Facebook or on Instagram, and really any any platforms where you can send us a message. And if you want to share your hometown, a murder, that would be fucking amazing. So we also have one more announcement, a new coming out announcement that sounds like a noose, which we call heinous.
00:04:34:04 - 00:05:02:21
Kevin + Brandon
Does it does another little slip of of not water, because today I am sipping on a glass of nappy. It looks like it does look like teeth. And since we're obsessed with Peter, apparently in this fucking podcast, but this is a lovely, very big glass of lemon, so you're welcome. This is also not your first glass, so that probably makes sense as to why you keep jumping around from story to story, because you are just about to talk about our next announcement and then you talked about your beverage.
00:05:02:21 - 00:05:27:25
Kevin + Brandon
I know, and I needed a beverage. So friends asses are. that's Marty. She's freaking out a little bit because I just placed my glass on the table. Our next announcement. Our announcement. Okay, back on track. So we are very excited to do a giveaway. And it is called What's the Tea Giveaway? Why do you always do like the head shake or what's the tea?
00:05:27:27 - 00:05:44:01
Kevin + Brandon
I don't know. It feels natural. So what's the tea giveaway? What does that mean? It means that we want to hear from you now. We want your feedback, but only if it's five stars. But we want to get your review on Apple Podcasts. Actually, specifically, so you can help us grow this lovely channel. So what does that mean?
00:05:44:01 - 00:06:08:08
Kevin + Brandon
So we are going to run a giveaway from today. Today's episode, November 28th, all the way through December 26th, and we're going to announce our winners on January 2nd. my God. my God. What will they win? What's that you say? If you follow us on TikTok, you probably have already seen this video, but I don't know that we mentioned what you will win, but what you are going to win is are you ready?
00:06:08:09 - 00:06:27:06
Kevin + Brandon
Hey, a stainless steel tumbler. Brendan has one. If you remember from one of our episodes, I was like, He has the cup. It's a cup, but it's actually a fantastic cup. So great. Yeah. We're going to be giving away a tumbler. We are also going to giving away a heavy blend zip sweater. what? That means you could just say a hoodie.
00:06:27:06 - 00:06:48:12
Kevin + Brandon
Okay, great. It's a hat. Sips super cute, it zips, and then also some fun little stickers. And then we're also going to do a mid-show review mention. So when you do that, well, shout out your review because you won. But then also you will have an opportunity to join us on one of our episodes, whether that's in person or virtual, we'll make it happen.
00:06:48:12 - 00:07:04:15
Kevin + Brandon
We'll have you on. And we have one site fun. If you don't want to be on here, like, my God, no, thank you. Then we'll we won't do it. Yeah, tell a friend, but it'll probably be us having you listen into a story or even maybe asking you to come up with a story yourself. Imagine that. So it all kind of depends.
00:07:04:15 - 00:07:20:16
Kevin + Brandon
It's like a pick your own adventure. I know. It's such a start. All you have to do is leave us a review. So what's the to give away again? November 28 through December 26. The winner is chosen on January 2nd and you get a whole list of shit, which is really exciting. So please go. Leave us a review.
00:07:20:23 - 00:07:40:23
Kevin + Brandon
It's totally random. We will select and then shirt with your friends because we just want everyone to know who we are, but also so that they don't get murdered. So don't get murdered. Thank you. Okay, so today's episode. Brendan Episode six What is it about? Today's episode is on. I don't know. Have we named it yet? It's just, doctors who kill.
00:07:40:23 - 00:08:08:01
Kevin + Brandon
I think that's what we said. Yeah. So we have picked two very interesting doctor stories. At least I know mine's really kind of fucked up, which they always are. They keep saying, Yeah, yeah. But when I was looking, I was surprised with how many doctors I actually found that have been charged for the murder. I know. And it's a it's really interesting too, because we don't like we haven't, I guess do that deep into our personal life, but we have many of you know that our dog is in early.
00:08:08:04 - 00:08:26:24
Kevin + Brandon
Well, not early. HARTFIELD No, no, no. She's a late heart failure. So Miss Martina Reid of Fajita is not doing great. Yeah, but she is up here with us right now, so anyway, that's one thing happening in our life. And the other thing happening in my life is that my my dear father in law, Brendan's dad has been in the hospital recently, so this episode kind of comes at a weird time, right?
00:08:26:26 - 00:08:43:18
Kevin + Brandon
Especially on doctors. I know. I don't know if you I don't know about you, but it felt really weird working on this one to be like, okay, so our dog is in and out of the doctor right now. Yeah, my dad has been in the hospital for like three weeks, on and off. He is back at home and he's doing great.
00:08:43:18 - 00:09:04:05
Kevin + Brandon
So I do hope you're feeling even more bearing. Yeah, which I'm really excited about because that was a that was just scary. You know, it's interesting as you get older because we're in our later thirties, nearing 40. And as you get older, your people just start getting older. And I don't know, it's not a fun it is not a fun period in life.
00:09:04:05 - 00:09:27:00
Kevin + Brandon
I don't think I'm for no one thinks that unless you're one of these doctors will remember that day. But it's not fun to see people age and certainly get into the hospital. And I don't know. It's not a fun period. So it's been a little bit of a rough few weeks recently. Right. But yeah, but the what we've been hearing back from the podcast and everybody who's been involved, it's helped uplift things, correct?
00:09:27:00 - 00:09:49:18
Kevin + Brandon
Brendan Correct. So, so anyways, we want to dive right in. I think my turn to go first, you go first today, Brenda and Yaz. Okay. Episode six Doctors that Kill. Let me get my limoncello first. Delicious. Okay. All right. Are we ready? Are you ready already? Just said I had my limoncello. I'm ready. I didn't know if that's if we were keeping that into the.
00:09:49:20 - 00:10:16:19
Kevin + Brandon
Yes, we're leaving it in. Sorry, I don't. I'm just trying to go with the flow. So apparently we're alive. We are not like every recording. okay. So my. Shut the fuck up. I mean, we are live in person. Farhad, I hate you. So my story is on. Doctor. Doctor? Well, it just starts off that way. His own doctor It was very little trouble for his doctor.
00:10:16:22 - 00:10:58:15
Kevin + Brandon
Dr. my story is on Dr. Linda Hazzard. In September 1910, two sisters, Dorothy Williamson, who goes by Dora, was 37, and Claire Williamson, who is 33. We're in Victoria, British Columbia from Liverpool, England. Coming from a very wealthy family. Dora and Clare had an interesting upbringing when they were about 18 and 14. Both parents died, leaving them with a massive fortune that they inherited from their grandfather, a Scottish born Charles Williamson, leaving them with over 1 million U.S. dollars, which in today's money is about $34 million and various real estate properties around the world in the ladies were set for basically for life.
00:10:58:16 - 00:11:23:20
Kevin + Brandon
So growing up, they essentially didn't have any parents or figures besides their governess, parrot terriers. They had a team of I wish I was here so I could be like, you, so you could judge her with me. Anyway, her parental. Okay, so some parental. So yeah, they essentially they didn't grow up with any parental figures besides their governess, which was a woman that was employed as a private tutor who teaches children in their home but is basically kind of like a nanny, as in her name was Margaret Conway.
00:11:23:22 - 00:11:46:18
Kevin + Brandon
Okay. And so they had to learn a lot on their own. So learning to become weary of men in all facets became ever prevalent in their lives. So from men looking into taking advantage of them romantically or warding off salesmen who were only interested in their money, these ladies had to become pretty independent, and especially in the fact that it was a time where women were necessarily the ones who had amassed fortunes.
00:11:46:18 - 00:12:07:06
Kevin + Brandon
It was mostly men. So now, looking at their photos, they were really gorgeous young women, and they looked like the quintessential woman from like the early 1900s, like the flapper esque. But before the rest of love. Yeah, they were quite progressive for the time and being that they were women with Ms.. Fortune people looking, would you say they were woke?
00:12:07:09 - 00:12:30:19
Kevin + Brandon
They were actually like in the today's term? no, not at all. I just wanted to throw that term in there because everyone seems to politicize it anyway. I mean, they were a little bit woke in the sense that they about what they looked into and what they did coming up. They dressed woke. Yeah, sure. So being that they were women with the mass fortune people looking in the viewed them as worldly wealthy centric.
00:12:30:26 - 00:12:55:02
Kevin + Brandon
Okay they didn't wear clothes seriously now I'm just getting like there are country where we're all right I love you set up okay okay. I'm trying really hard to mess up which doesn't make you be messed up, even though it's great. And I could see your reaction. Have a quarter of my eye is distracting. You know what's great, though, is that if anything, if this podcast smells, at least we have the memories.
00:12:55:02 - 00:13:12:01
Kevin + Brandon
So it's like a anyways where we're this is why we what is it? Because we're just going off the phone. I know, I know. She's going to be listening to this appeal. Can't leave them alone. Okay. Anyway, go ahead. People looked at them as worldly, wealthy and centric. They didn't wear corsets and at the time that was a big thing.
00:13:12:01 - 00:13:51:11
Kevin + Brandon
And they were vegetarians, which well, and it was noted that the sisters know meat funny will make lamb. It was noted that the sisters, especially Claire, were hypochondriacs and had an obsession with healing themselves from illnesses by any means, as their goal was to save themselves from sickness and death. They also believed that traditional medical doctors were fools, that they they didn't believe in a lot of the science and technical jargon that they had, and they became dedicated followers of the Clean Living Movement, which was and still is, the idea of cleaning up society in health related issues.
00:13:51:11 - 00:14:19:05
Kevin + Brandon
They believed that eating that foods were harmful to one's health, so they only ate natural foods, nothing processed, nothing artificial. They didn't indulge in too much food. They didn't have sugar, alcohol or drugs and they had sexual purity. That's really interesting. This was in the twenties now. Well, this was in the late 1800s. yeah. Well, where their story comes in is 1910, but the story spans from the late 1800s.
00:14:19:09 - 00:14:37:12
Kevin + Brandon
And even I actually didn't know that, like vegetarianism, this was if that's even a word was even a thing, then it was. And it was actually I tried to do some research into it and it was pretty popular. But being that it was that they came from England, it was more popular over there than it was here. Well, and I keep just thinking about those shows that are on I think it's on Netflix or whatever like that.
00:14:37:12 - 00:14:56:09
Kevin + Brandon
We've watched about America. I think America and like the food then like I just keep thinking of like, who invented ketchup and like that time period and like the sausage that they would use the cover of the Rotten Me. Yeah. So like, I think like back then, I mean, I wish I could be a vegetarian, that we all know how that ended with me crying in front of the hot dog stand, which I'll expand on at some point.
00:14:56:09 - 00:15:11:08
Kevin + Brandon
But in general I feel like I would have leaned more towards being a vegetarian than because of how discussing the meat and just food in general. yeah. I mean, because I mean, it's not like you could keep the food very fresh for very long. You know, to me it kind of made sense that they were vegetarian at that time.
00:15:11:08 - 00:15:31:20
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah. So they had this lifestyle where they didn't eat anything crazy, they didn't have sex. They just like everything was pure because it led to a healthier lifestyle. So why are they were staying at the Empress Hotel in Victoria, British Columbia? They came across an advertisement by a doctor, Linda Hazzard, for a wellness fasting solution in a Seattle newspaper.
00:15:31:24 - 00:15:54:02
Kevin + Brandon
Immediately being interested, they purchased her book Fasting for the Cure of Disease, and they read it and they were hooked. So learning more about Linda Love Ladies became really intrigued, being that they lived their lives to be protected away from men, like they protected themselves by not being around men as much. They were intrigued by having a female doctor and at the time there wasn't many of them out there.
00:15:54:02 - 00:16:17:00
Kevin + Brandon
So especially a doctor that was so impressive. She had, I think, three books at that time. She was about to open up a sanatorium and she created her own methodologies that she created herself without a man. So as independent women that came from money, they idolized this. So it's now when Claire decided to write, Linda telling her about all of their ailments, like her stomach issues and Doris swollen glands and achy knees.
00:16:17:02 - 00:16:37:07
Kevin + Brandon
And they asked for Linda's help. A few days later, Linda wrote back saying if that they were able to come to Seattle, she could help them immediately. Although the sanatorium was not completed, Linda promised to take them under her care and would move them to the completed facility when she could. Sorry. No, ma'am. I don't know when this was interrupted, but.
00:16:37:13 - 00:16:59:23
Kevin + Brandon
Okay. So who was Linda Hazard? I figured this was a good time for some backstory. Linda Barfield was her or her maiden name. Born on December 18th, 1867, in Carver, Minnesota, she was the eldest of seven children to her parents, Susanna and Montgomery. And although her father was a corporal during the Civil War, they had a pretty loving and from what I read, normal upbringing.
00:16:59:25 - 00:17:19:29
Kevin + Brandon
During her youth, Linda became pretty fascinated with health, though. So coming from a home of vegetarians and other connection, she understood the fact that what you ate, how much you ate, and how restricting your diet could help your health. It's also at this time where it's noted that her father, Montgomery, became fascinated with the modern medical practices and regularly had his children seen by physicians.
00:17:20:01 - 00:17:45:29
Kevin + Brandon
That's good, right? So eventually these consistent visits became unhealthy. So. Well, how often were they going? Quite a bit. So whether they were sick or not, the doctors would come up with answers to all of their ailments. At one point, all of the children were diagnosed with parasites. Although they had no symptoms. The diagnosis was told to be cured with a popular blue mass or also known as just a blue pill.
00:17:45:29 - 00:18:16:15
Kevin + Brandon
That was said to be able to cure many ailments like a toothache, tuberculosis, constipation, parasites and pains from childbirth. Goodness. Well, this feels very matrix. The blue pill that like it's not it's nothing wrong with that at this time. The innocent appearing pill of glycerol in Rose Honey didn't seem too bad. However, society didn't know that the main ingredient, which was mercury, is a toxic metal that can damage the nervous system kidneys, liver immune system.
00:18:16:15 - 00:18:39:09
Kevin + Brandon
And it can also cause neurological issues like dementia psychosis and personality changes. goodness. So for Linda, this caused major vomiting and diarrhea. And it said that the pills made it hard for her to keep her food in her system for years. So for a year, she was basically starving herself. Yeah. So by the time Linda was 18, she realized there were issues and she stopped going to the physician.
00:18:39:12 - 00:19:00:23
Kevin + Brandon
However, it's believed that the trauma from her experience propelled her into the path of restricted dieting. People eventually came to understand that this treatment fucked with her mind, making her think that having an empty stomach was a clean and pure way of living. She perceived it as a way of having self-control with which helped you heal quicker. Brandon, Just a note.
00:19:00:23 - 00:19:24:10
Kevin + Brandon
Your bumblebee mackerel was delivered. thank you. Thank you. That's actually for K. Yeah. Very nice. You're so awkward sometimes. So the same year Linda met 32 year old Irwin Perry, which they ended up marrying in 1886. Throughout the next few years, Linda and Irwin moved from Fergus, moved to Fergus Falls, Minnesota, and had two children in in Neenah.
00:19:24:14 - 00:19:43:10
Kevin + Brandon
The next bit is a little bit different and I couldn't find much clarity on what happened. But there's two different scenarios. So the first one is it's believed that Irwin may have left Linda disappearing in 1989, never to be seen again. He allegedly didn't leave a note. He didn't leave any money, and there were no clues. I mean, he just up and vanished.
00:19:43:15 - 00:20:02:20
Kevin + Brandon
And then four years later, Linda ended up filing for divorce by claiming abandonment. She then sent her children to live with her mother and headed over to Minneapolis. So that's one scenario. The second scenario is that it's said that Linda decided to leave on her own accord and that she left Irwin and her kids and went to Minneapolis to pursue her career.
00:20:02:22 - 00:20:17:29
Kevin + Brandon
Either way, Linda moved to Minneapolis to pursue her career, and I have no idea what happened to her children. So. so I also didn't research that. got it. But then what about Irwin? Was did he pop up anywhere or was he just. I didn't. That's all. That's all I was able to find about it. Interesting. Okay.
00:20:18:02 - 00:20:39:04
Kevin + Brandon
So either way, whatever happened, she left. Everybody went to Minneapolis. Linda's like one of those names. Like where you can be all dramatic, like Linda. What other ones are there? You know? Sure. Like, Gary. Gary, Like, Yeah, there's Larry. Larry. That's what Gary was. But she has one of those names, like, Sure. you know what it is?
00:20:39:04 - 00:21:00:17
Kevin + Brandon
It's Bob's Burgers is yours. That's what I'm thinking about. Linda Belcher, 1902 She started to get a bit deeper into fasting. In her research, into a bit more, she found herself intrigued with the writings of Dr. Edward Hooker. Dewey. Dr. Dewey was known for being the pioneer of the therapeutic fasting with his no breakfast plan that he created and alternative medicines.
00:21:00:17 - 00:21:24:01
Kevin + Brandon
He wrote various books. The most notable was Dewey's The True Science of Living in 1895. Many thought his methods were irrationally extreme and labeled him as a quack. But for Linda, his words resonated with her, labeled him as a quack. Yeah. So from here, Linda knew what she wanted to do. She decided to open up her own practice, develop her own methods, and help change the world with a business focused mind.
00:21:24:04 - 00:21:46:29
Kevin + Brandon
Her ways started to become a hit. So she was actually British, but ended up in Minnesota where she's. no, the two women in the beginning, the two sisters were British. She is not. She was from Carver. Got it. Got it. Got to go somewhere. Carver, a minnesota nurse. Okay, cool. It ended up becoming a hit. So advertising, fasting as a cure to any disease started.
00:21:47:05 - 00:22:06:10
Kevin + Brandon
Her method would rid the body of all toxins. So she just put out a bunch of advertising saying this will cure everything. So now, up to this point, you may have noticed that I'm calling Linda by her first name, and I haven't called her Dr. Linda Hazzard, but just a couple of times. That's a terrifying name. Dr. Linda Hazzard, I think you.
00:22:06:11 - 00:22:29:22
Kevin + Brandon
Right. Well, it's intentional that I'm not calling her doctor. So you may also have noticed that I haven't touched on her medical training at all as up to this point. Right. She's starting her own practice. So as of right now, then, is a 35 year old woman who's starting her practice. So how is she a doctor? What makes this story kind of more awful is that although Linda was considered a doctor, she never actually had a medical degree.
00:22:29:24 - 00:22:52:29
Kevin + Brandon
She was a licensed to practice medicine because of a loophole that grandfathered her and other doctors of alternative medicines without degrees. No. So she was able to practice as a doctor, although she was not a trained doctor. my God. So continuing on, I thought it was great to understand that none of her methods and methods were based out of medical research, education, or knowledge of the specific topic.
00:22:52:29 - 00:23:16:23
Kevin + Brandon
It was based off of her own thoughts in what she read from others like Doctor Dewey. Great. So let's also not forget that in the early 1800s there was only four medical schools, and between 1810, in 1876, 73 schools opened. So the industry was changing drastically and schooling was only supposed to be supplemental to an apprenticeship apprenticeship that's more accurate.
00:23:16:26 - 00:23:36:25
Kevin + Brandon
Plus, the FDA wasn't even established until 1906, a few years after she started practicing. Yeah, well, Linda was able to slide right in and do her own shit. Wow. Yeah. So one of her first patients was Gertrude Young, who is a 41 year old woman who suffered from a stroke that left one of her legs and one of her arms paralyzed.
00:23:36:25 - 00:24:06:04
Kevin + Brandon
So being unhappy with the diagnosis, which was that she would never get better in seeing advertisements for this miracle miracle cure, Gertrude decided to inquire more information on Linda's practice during her initial cancer Constellation consultation, Linda prescribed her a 40 day fast. Now Linda's methods were pretty extreme. She believed the path to health was to allow the body to rest for an extended period of time, and that rest would help remove toxins from the body.
00:24:06:07 - 00:24:34:22
Kevin + Brandon
Linda believed that the root of all disease could be managed by food and that too much food was directly related to one's health. In the source of all disease was impure blood brought on by impaired digestion. So to clarify what her fast included when her patients were to boil tomatoes in water to make a vegetable broth? No seasonings, only just a little bit of butter and they were supposed to have one cup two times a day.
00:24:34:24 - 00:24:56:19
Kevin + Brandon
It eventually grew into asparagus juice and orange juice with very little food. They would have what Linda called a massage. However, it was nothing like a massage. It was basically a way of treating somebody's body by pounding on them, and Linda would pound on their backs, heads and foreheads. It was thought that this would help prevent illness and fight internal illnesses.
00:24:56:19 - 00:25:19:17
Kevin + Brandon
So basically she would go in, just beat the crap out of people. Yeah, there is a type of medical practice I forgot it was called ASCO, something that she based this off of, which you don't have to have a medical license for that type of practice. So she just yeah, she would just take people who are eating and beat them for the third thing on my list of four.
00:25:19:18 - 00:25:44:25
Kevin + Brandon
They have they were also tasked with walking as much as they could, so overexerting themselves with no nutrition. Linda told them it would help them purge the poison that filled their bodies in the last, whereas they were subject to internal massages. So they were enemas. They started first as 30 minute treatments that eventually grew to be like days long, eight plus hours long treatments with scalding waters.
00:25:45:04 - 00:26:06:01
Kevin + Brandon
my God. Lives are. She would fill you up with hot water, beat the shit out of you and make you not eat. Yeah, she was great for you. So now, Gertrude, thinking, thinking this is a miracle cure decided to go along with it. Within three weeks of her treatment, things started to go south, and she couldn't stop vomiting.
00:26:06:01 - 00:26:30:28
Kevin + Brandon
I mean, yeah. So calling the doctor that treated her in the past, Dr. Eugene Williams, who was shocked to see how frail Gertrude was and she had pasty yellow sunken in skin and she was weighing about £105. I love to £105. Right. It's not this way. Demanding that she dropped the fast, she declined. She wouldn't. There was something about Linda's persuasiveness that kept her hooked.
00:26:30:28 - 00:26:51:24
Kevin + Brandon
And this is like a consistent with all of her patients, something about Linda in the intensity, in her people. Just it's just she's like a cult leader. She got them. Absolutely. They follow. Yeah. However, by day 39 of the fast of day 39 of the 40 day fast, Gertrude died from what appeared to be starvation, blaming it on her chronic paralysis.
00:26:52:01 - 00:27:10:29
Kevin + Brandon
Linda denied all of the allegations. She claimed that Gertrude was recovering great, but that she was starting to not follow the plan as directed. However, she said that Gertrude had the preexisting condition that caused her to die, that no matter what she did, she wouldn't have recovered. So she's basically saying, I didn't do anything. It was something else.
00:27:11:00 - 00:27:40:28
Kevin + Brandon
Dr. Williams wasn't really having it, though. He tried to pursue legal action, especially hearing that Gertrude, before she died, assigned a nurse of Linda as the beneficiary to a large amount of her jewelry and many expensive items of Gertrude's went missing after the death. Sure, being that there was no laws against fasting in the state of Minnesota, there was no legal grounds, and Linda walked away a free woman to continue to practice, even though the coroner even stated that the reason for her death was starvation.
00:27:41:04 - 00:28:04:01
Kevin + Brandon
She's just. After the death, Linda met a man named Samuel Hazard, who was apparently a swindler that had a promising military career that got crushed when he was found misappropriating military funds. He was also considered a drunk, of course, Linda eventually married because obviously and so I won't go too much into their backstory because it's not as important to the story.
00:28:04:04 - 00:28:30:18
Kevin + Brandon
But from what I saw, Sam, he married a woman and then he left her and married a different woman under the name of Hargrave, who he was married to when Linda and him got married. So they met. He was already married under a different name. And they got married. He got married to Linda. This caused some issues with the other woman's father, who was a senator, and he filed the polygamy polygamy charge against Samuel, which he said was not an actual marriage because he gave a false name.
00:28:30:20 - 00:28:44:28
Kevin + Brandon
So he tried to get out of it by saying that he that wasn't his real name, so he couldn't be married to her. And then after showing evidence of their marriage, Samuel was arrested and sent to jail for two years. Well, Samuel, so at no point of the like to the story, but it adds a little bit of something.
00:28:45:00 - 00:29:03:22
Kevin + Brandon
Once he got out, he ended up stepping right in to help Linda with her practice, though, understanding that the optics of him working there as a felon were kind of odd. So they decided to purchase a 40 acre land in Alila, Washington, which is roughly across the town from Seattle. Huge, like Puget Sound. It's just a pungent Puget.
00:29:03:25 - 00:29:23:04
Kevin + Brandon
And I know that. And it was like it's like diagonally south in the sound. I love Seattle, you know, it's great, right? So it's here that they would one day open a sanatorium, but until then, they got themselves an office space in downtown Seattle. So throughout this time, Linda was starting to gain traction. There were many patients that swore by her treatments up and down.
00:29:23:09 - 00:29:44:19
Kevin + Brandon
So this other woman was the first one. She was, Yeah. So far, she's the only one who's Gertrude. Yeah. Yeah. But every like she Linda had a bunch of different patients that said that it was great. Whatever. But up until now, there is only one death. So that all changed between this time and when Linda met Dora and Claire, it stated that the prescribed treatments of Linda killed numerous people.
00:29:44:19 - 00:30:06:16
Kevin + Brandon
So we have Daisy Mud Haglund, H.G. Wells. And however you say that she was a young Norwegian woman who successfully finished her prescribed 50 day fast. However, just shortly after the Fast Daisy ended up dying, the official cause was stomach cancer, which was said would have she would have died regardless because she had an inability to eat due to the cancer.
00:30:06:18 - 00:30:37:16
Kevin + Brandon
However, people do blame Linda for this. There was an Ida Wilcox, A, Blanche B Tindle, Viola, He and Eugene Stanley Wakelin, who as a 26 year old son of a British lord who was found dead as a result from a bullet in the head. It was presumed suicide. However, Linda received power of attorney over Eugene's estate, which she was found to be wiring herself money after his death because she said she needed to pay the rest of his bills at the mortuary with Right.
00:30:37:19 - 00:31:04:24
Kevin + Brandon
So whether she was responsible for the shooting of Eugene, it's unknown. However, many people believe it was after Linda had an argument. Once she found out that he wasn't as rich as she believed he was. Wow. Yeah. So then there was a mad Whitney. There was Earl Edward Erdman who kept a journal of his care when he was mostly mentions how he ate mashed soup, a couple of oranges, strained soup, the occasional milk.
00:31:04:26 - 00:31:30:26
Kevin + Brandon
But he also tracked how he felt during the days, too. And he mentions how he was starting to get dizzy. He had back aches. He started to not be able to sleep and his ribs were hurting and more. Then there was a Frank Southard in flux, who was an Englishman who came to the U.S., who Linda put on a 53 day fast, and it said that Linda gained control of some of his cash and properties, just like with Gertrude, and his family was told that he died with only $70 to his name.
00:31:30:26 - 00:31:52:08
Kevin + Brandon
And then there was a Lewis Ellsworth Rader. Okay, so now we'll jump back up to when she met Dora and Claire. Yeah. So again, they were asking her for help and she gladly offered to excited about the offer. The sisters packed up and went immediately, not telling any of their friends or family about their plans. They were trying to keep it under wraps because nobody liked their unorthodox medical practices.
00:31:52:08 - 00:32:08:27
Kevin + Brandon
Sure. So they just wanted to, like, pass it off and be like, they were they weren't practitioners. So right there. So that was just like how they live their life. Yeah. No, they, but they, yeah, people didn't like how they were, they would kind of, they did whatever they wanted to do. Yeah. In February of 1911 the sisters decided to leave British Columbia and head down to Seattle.
00:32:08:28 - 00:32:26:04
Kevin + Brandon
Within minutes of meeting Linda, they were told that their conditions were quite serious and she started their treatment right then, a bit confused by the fact that Linda did not perform any physical exams. To confirm her suspicions, Dora pushed back a bit throughout this whole story. From what I saw, jaw was a little bit more apprehensive than Clair.
00:32:26:04 - 00:32:47:05
Kevin + Brandon
Clair just went with it with the response that there was no use in doing anything physical examinations until after the fast until the pass has proceeded for some time. Linda explained her successes and they were on their way, starting on their treatments immediately. So for $60 per month per sister, they would meet Linda five times a week. So this was in today's money.
00:32:47:05 - 00:33:06:27
Kevin + Brandon
It's about 1900 dollars. They would meet for the brutal massages, the two cups of tomato or asparagus juice. They would overexert their walking and they would get scalding enemas, kick it over the scalding. And I know from here the sisters started to become pretty emaciated. It's even noted by neighbors that they would hear loud screams in Wales through through the walls.
00:33:07:03 - 00:33:23:20
Kevin + Brandon
Because don't forget, the sanatorium is not open yet. So they're living in an apartment which I did not have in here, but they were living in an apartment that Linda gave to them. So the neighbors were hearing loud screams in Wales to the walls, and they were frightened by the hideous skeleton appearance of the sisters when they saw them.
00:33:23:22 - 00:33:45:27
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah, well, being engulfed by Linda's treatment, the sisters didn't seem to be too worried when they weren't able to walk without fainting or collapsing. It's also noted that the sisters would start to listen to everything Linda would say, like when she told them not to talk about finances with each other or when she told them to bring her all of their valuables so she could keep them safe in her office.
00:33:46:09 - 00:34:11:11
Kevin + Brandon
God. By the time hit April 26, the sisters roughly were around £70 and they were transferred to the brand new sanatorium in Old Villa. And instead of an actual hospital, they went to the sanatorium. It was at this moment when Linda saw her next chance to take advantage of the ladies. Linda decided to have her private attorney draft papers up in which she had Claire sign in her delirious state.
00:34:11:14 - 00:34:35:02
Kevin + Brandon
Mind you, she was also so weak that she could barely move. The papers were were basically an amendment to Claire's will that stated, when she dies, that she would leave a stipend of 25 GBP per year to Linda's sanatorium and that she if she died, she wanted to have her body cremated under the super supervision and supervision. my Lord.
00:34:35:04 - 00:35:06:25
Kevin + Brandon
Supervising in supervision, whatever fucking word I want to say right now. It's supervision, supervised. And she said, I don't know, under the supervision and direction of Linda. So sort of by the end of the same month, things were not getting any better. The sisters governess Margaret was back in Sydney, Australia, and she received a short, cryptic telegram asking her to come to Washington.
00:35:06:27 - 00:35:30:27
Kevin + Brandon
It said that no one knew who sent the letter, but there's claims that it came from somebody at the property in the the sanatorium. Interesting. Yeah. So being that it was the early 1900s, she got her things set sail on May 8th and got to Seattle by June 1st. However, it was a little bit too late. So once they arrived, Margaret was told by Linda and Sam that Claire had died.
00:35:30:27 - 00:35:58:24
Kevin + Brandon
Endora had gone insane. So Margaret was shocked as the ladies who were nowhere near death prior to Linda's care, asking about what happened to Claire, Linda proceeded to let her know her autopsy. They discovered that she had cirrhosis of the liver. Her blood was powdered in her internal organs were shrunk. And so this autopsy was also performed by Linda because Linda liked to do her own autopsies because she couldn't make up other stories.
00:35:58:24 - 00:36:23:19
Kevin + Brandon
And a lot of the times she said people had cirrhosis of the liver. Linda asked if Margaret wanted to go see Claire's body, a body that was, at this point dead for weeks. Linda said that the body was beautifully so. Margaret was terrified, especially since the embalming process was a newer concept, which nobody believed that Claire, who didn't like medical treatments and all of that stuff.
00:36:23:22 - 00:36:43:08
Kevin + Brandon
A lot of people didn't believe that Claire would have wanted to be involved. Yeah. When Margaret got to the body, she was in shock. She said it was not Claire. The body was wearing all of Claire's clothing, but she said it was physically was not her body. So the further confused Margaret, Linda told her that Claire wished to be cremated, have her ashes spread in Salalah.
00:36:43:10 - 00:37:00:22
Kevin + Brandon
All which sounded odd because Claire had never talked about being cremated, and from what she knew, she wanted to be buried in Australia or in England. But just to add in, because I saw this in a couple of different places, the embalming process was still really new and so nobody at the time knew how drastically it could change the look of the body.
00:37:00:25 - 00:37:21:20
Kevin + Brandon
So it could have been Claire's. It might not have been, we don't know. But from here, Margaret just wanted to go see Dora because Dora was still alive, being brought to the sanatorium. She saw the state of Dora's frail £60 body and got concerned. 60, which I think I might mention it later in here. But I believe they went in at like £100.
00:37:21:20 - 00:37:44:02
Kevin + Brandon
So at this point, she's lost £40, and being £100 is pretty thin and just £60 now. Yeah. That's £60. But like that's, that's crazy. Yeah. So at first Dora was begging to leave, but the next day she said she couldn't, stating that the cure was doing her a world of good. But let's not forget the many people talked about how scared they were of Linda, and her presence was really intimidating.
00:37:44:03 - 00:38:09:07
Kevin + Brandon
So somehow she got Dora did not want to leave. So Margaret from here started to do anything. She could to get Dora help. She moved in where Dora was in the sanatorium, and they she would try to sneak her some food to eat. So they she tried to bring her rice and flour to add to her intake. It's at this time when Margaret is at the sanatorium, she learned that Dora signed over Linda as her power of attorney and legal guardianship.
00:38:09:07 - 00:38:25:24
Kevin + Brandon
When Margaret said she was leaving with Dora, Linda said she couldn't go and that she would be spending the rest of her time at the sanatorium. Margaret ended up leaving the property so she could reach out to their closest relative who happened to be in Portland. And it was her uncle John who happened to see them right before they went to Linda's care.
00:38:25:24 - 00:38:57:00
Kevin + Brandon
And he was pissed with what he saw when he got there, he asked what happened. Linda said she would show him grabbing a small bag like a small cloth bag. She opened it up and inside was a stomach, a liver and some intestines to show him how small they were, which is disgusting. To Linda presents him with basically an offer that if he pay back the $2,000 that she said was due for Claire's care, that they wouldn't allow Dora to leave unless they had the cash.
00:38:57:00 - 00:39:16:08
Kevin + Brandon
So her uncle ended up negotiating a lower amount to about 900 and got her out. And on July 22nd, Dora was out of there after almost 100 days. So trying to make a quiet release. It got caught on by the press and there was papers that ran photos of Dora, all £60 of her, which is terrifying. And so I might actually put it in the cover art.
00:39:16:08 - 00:39:36:06
Kevin + Brandon
So apologies. So now at this point, Dora got in contact with the British Vice Council, angry of how the two citizens of this country was treated. They were able to start to build a case. So first they went after the guardianship that Linda had over Dora, which they ended up winning, and it helped open up the case for Claire.
00:39:36:07 - 00:39:59:26
Kevin + Brandon
Finally, on January 15th, 1912, Linda Hazzard went to trial after a month long investigation. Luckily for the sisters, Dora was able to take the stand and speak her truth. Because Dora does not die. Dora ends up living. Love that for Dora for all of this. So she ended up testifying and went into great detail, telling her story. She talked about the painful procedures and the lack of food and how it affected them.
00:39:59:29 - 00:40:24:01
Kevin + Brandon
So then on February 4th, Linda ended up being found guilty of manslaughter and was sentenced between and 20 years at the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla, Washington. Then on December 19th, 1915, only being in prison for less than two years. I didn't even finish my sentence here. She got released. I totally took out a whole section.
00:40:24:03 - 00:40:47:19
Kevin + Brandon
But after less than two years, she was released. She rose. So shortly after that, Governor Ernest Lacy Lister allies to Iraq. I'm just going to spell it out now. Ernest Lister, he granted Linda a pardon under the condition that she left the U.S. So she did just that. She packed up and moved to New Zealand and Linda restarted her practice, started all over again.
00:40:47:22 - 00:41:06:01
Kevin + Brandon
And so after five years, Linda ended up coming back to Washington. I don't I didn't see anything talking about how she was able to come back, but she came back to Washington and repurchased the sanatorium where she eventually stood trial again for another death. This time, though, although she was found guilty, she only had to pay a fine of $100.
00:41:06:03 - 00:41:30:25
Kevin + Brandon
So you kill a person, you pay a fine. Okay. Linda ended up continuing to practice up until 1935 when a fire broke out and destroyed the property. By the time Linda was 70, she got very ill. Deciding that her way was only correct way. She followed her own procedures, only eating broth, external and internal massages and more. And then finally, on June 24th, 1938, Linda died from starvation.
00:41:30:28 - 00:41:45:21
Kevin + Brandon
What I do love is that she died from her. It came full circle. Yeah, they came complete fools. You know, I just. It's so interesting. I guess you've got to put yourself in like, I don't like. I don't like doctrines at all, which is why I love the doctor, like, six years, which is probably not because I think it's been too long.
00:41:45:21 - 00:42:09:22
Kevin + Brandon
But shake your head, you fucking. It was it. We were living in Tampa. yeah. We've haven't. I mean, that's not true because I've gotten like sick and have been to the doctor, but I've gotten like a physical I haven't got my balls played with and Cold heaven. I've never gotten them played with like, like that. But still, like, you know, when you have to go to the doctor and if a doctor is playing with your balls, you, the doctor has never played with like, I just probably love a good thing.
00:42:10:00 - 00:42:33:18
Kevin + Brandon
my God. Okay. Anyway, so. But I feel like I would never let like, I would not have followed that procedure because it shouldn't be that painful. Yeah, I don't know. That's. Well, no, I mean, you shouldn't be fasting for that long. Your body can't sustain life like I was at the doctor for the apoplectic appendicitis or whatever when we were speaking of Seattle, we were in Seattle, and they wanted to give me all that medication, and I said no, but it was just pain management medication.
00:42:33:18 - 00:42:54:24
Kevin + Brandon
Like if it was lifesaving, whatever. Well, I mean, that's but that goes into a whole different topic of opioid crisis in the US with a whole different story visiting that shortly. But anyway, she's all right. So I have some interesting facts. It said that Linda has killed at least 15 people and she wrote three she wrote for I read three different books, but then I saw something that said more.
00:42:54:24 - 00:43:21:27
Kevin + Brandon
But she at least wrote the book Fasting for the Cure of Disease that the sisters read that you could still find on Amazon. my God, for $31.95 hardcover. Who's getting that? That was really interesting. And some of her other books are on Amazon, too, which I just it's crazy. This one book has a quote in it that says Appetite is craving hunger is desire, Craving is never satisfied, but desire is relieved when one is supplied.
00:43:22:19 - 00:43:48:11
Kevin + Brandon
Which like totally confuses the shit out of me. But I liked the way it was written. Sure, it was known by the people in the community how awful Linda's treatments were. Some in the community called the sanatorium starvation Heights in the Seattle Daily Times once had a headline that read Woman M.D. Kills Another Patient. There was a dentist that was near her office that she would sell the patients whose deeds gold teeth for extra profit.
00:43:48:13 - 00:44:08:21
Kevin + Brandon
It just I mean, she got to where she could just she was like getting out. She was monetizing every aspect of this. Absolutely. It's alleged that the night Claire died, that Dora was worried and tried to make her way over to Claire. Linda, for some reason, kept them separate. However, it was probably done so that they felt isolated and didn't get concern for each other, so they stayed sick.
00:44:08:27 - 00:44:33:16
Kevin + Brandon
So when Dora tried to talk to Claire, Linda got mad. Linda asked Claire if if she wanted another treatment. And without moment's notice, Linda pummeled Claire in the stomach. After a cry from Claire, her eyes rolled in behind her head and she died. So that's actually how she died. I hate Linda, right? Fucking Linda. And then it's noted that after Claire died, Linda started to wear all of Claire's clothing and jewelry.
00:44:33:18 - 00:44:55:12
Kevin + Brandon
Sam also went to the bank with a money order that was signed for Claire. Signed from Claire to Linda for $1,000. And this is great. That's crazy. That's murder. Never. Never literally heard of that, right? I thought it was interesting. It was. It's the least gory story, I think, so far, but it's pretty. It's just it's awful. But it also goes into like the impact that cult leaders.
00:44:55:25 - 00:45:20:13
Kevin + Brandon
yeah. Or people can really convince others to self-harm so heavily. It's kind of what I've always thought about our former president and like everything that's going on right there is yep. How can people be this engulfed stupid, ingrained? Yeah. And like, listen to these things that are blatantly obvious, that are not true and still follow along. It's just, it's, it's crazy to me.
00:45:20:14 - 00:45:36:17
Kevin + Brandon
It's crazy. The same can be said about like even this attack on LGBTQ, on how they're using this idea of indoctrination and all this kind of stuff at all. In the headlines, you literally see four pastors getting arrested for child, you know, it makes me and saying, This world's a great place. Yeah, well, she was the fasting specialist.
00:45:36:20 - 00:45:58:09
Kevin + Brandon
She was a fasting asshole. Yeah. Fuck you, Linda. Fuck you, Linda. Never trust a Linda unless you're a listener. Then we love you, Linda. Linda Unless you're Linda Belcher. Because she's great. Are you ready for yours? Is it my turn? it's so your turn. There it was. Okay, I'm ready for episode six. The doctors that kill the name of my story is Harold.
00:45:58:15 - 00:46:25:14
Kevin + Brandon
You're a butt licker. does he like to lick patients? But he may. He might as well. I don't know, but I'm calling him a butler. Cur. Okay. Anyway, I'm not that, but lickers are like if you like to lick birds like you, it's your prerogative, right to your thing. We support everyone. Clean up first. Okay. So, Harold, you fucking butler heartless.
00:46:25:16 - 00:46:45:16
Kevin + Brandon
So. All right, now I'm going. Okay. I kind of likes how you were telling your stories, and so I'm going to kind of mirror. you're going to steal from me. Basically. Earlier you told me I couldn't create my own title because that's your thing. Not I did do we have a team of people who say, you cannot be telling people these crap?
00:46:45:23 - 00:47:01:19
Kevin + Brandon
but you can't, you know, because everyone doesn't get to know this version of you or I'm actually like, pretty much just assholes all the time, but they don't really get to see myself. They you. And so they're all like Prince, and you're so funny and you're so funny and so you can't take something from me because you kind of own everything because you're like the fun one, right?
00:47:01:24 - 00:47:27:03
Kevin + Brandon
Okay. So you just have to have everything off sharing, not caring here, guys. Whatever. Okay, So picture it. Very Golden Girls here. No, it was the morning of June 24th, 1998, when Kathleen Grundy opened the door to her adorable little British cottage to welcome and her doctor, whom she respected and trusted deeply for a routine blood tests upon entering, both chatted before the doctor unpacked his equipment from his medical.
00:47:27:06 - 00:47:49:10
Kevin + Brandon
Kathleen known to be a very happy and talkative individual, was vibrant, energetic and smiled a lot. So she welcomed her doctor into her home for her appointment and just like really, truly admired him and trusted him for some reason. Let's like actually why she sought him out. And she was like this 81 year old woman, Kathleen sat at the ready as the doctor selected a needle in which her arm prep to draw blood.
00:47:49:12 - 00:48:14:10
Kevin + Brandon
So picture it. Is that a cute little British cottage, you know, very hot Harry Potter. She's like, Yes, Doctor, Very Harry Potter. She's only reference that I can think of, even though I've been to like the UK where she's sitting in the cupboard underneath the stairs. She was a few hours later after her appointment, Kathleen failed to show up to her pensioner's luncheon club, so two of her colleagues actually went to her home to check on her.
00:48:14:11 - 00:48:40:03
Kevin + Brandon
So Kathleen, who was an 81 year old widow who was known to be quite active there, actually, they they noted that she was fit as a fiddle, was found dead. This is such a old person being fit as a fiddle, but she was found dead fully clothes and lying on her sofa in her sitting room. So the two immediately called her doctor, who had just seen her hours before, who returned, gave her a cursory once over and pronounced her dead later certifying the source of death.
00:48:40:03 - 00:49:05:05
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah, he did a once over just quick. I think cursory means like just visual. But anyway, he pronounced her dead later, certifying that her death was caused due to old age. I mean, she was old, but I'm assuming that's not what happened. Susan. That old 81 is not. It's not. I mean, it's it's older, right? It's what was a routine visit to draw blood just hours before was in actuality, a routine visit to murder.
00:49:05:10 - 00:49:35:11
Kevin + Brandon
The doctors, the latest victim. Instead of drawing blood from Kathleen, the doctor instead pumped her with a lethal dose of morphine, killing her. Just hours later. Well, that's rude. And she was the last of more than 200 victims. This is the story of Doctor Harold Shipman. But look, her a highly respected general practitioner who will forever be known as the doctor Death, the angel of death, and the good doctor ends.
00:49:35:11 - 00:50:01:04
Kevin + Brandon
Now, the butler, Angel of Death. That's all I know. It's a very good doctor. One he go good, right? There's no good there. No, I mean, if you're killing people. No, but I know poor little Kathleen Grundy. here's what's really interesting. And I always love to dive into the witch. Realistically, killers always have, like, this explosive on them, regardless, like, we know a lot about the killer, but not as much about.
00:50:01:08 - 00:50:21:19
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah, the the victim. Victim. That's why I like to add as much as I can of mine, too. So his name was Harold Frederick Shipman, also known as Fred. Mr. Fred. Fred was born. Fred is one of those names. It is one of those names like Linda. Hey, Fred, Linda and Fred. Go fuck yourself, Fred. Fuck you but lickers.
00:50:21:21 - 00:50:45:11
Kevin + Brandon
Okay, So Fred was so Harold Shipman was born into a working class family in Nottingham, England on January 14th, 1946, to Vera and Harold Shipman. His father was a truck driver, which I think has zero significance, but it was there you not. So his parents were devout Methodists. That's it. That's where it was. That's all fucked up. Yep.
00:50:45:13 - 00:51:05:16
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah. Everything starts with religion, you know. So Harold was born the middle and favorite child to his mother, Vera. And we're the middle ones. Always the favorite. I don't know. I mean, my mom's on Palmer and Wayne and. No, you're watching. I know. My sister's the favorite. The devil is a listener. And so she celebrated. Fuck you, right?
00:51:05:19 - 00:51:28:16
Kevin + Brandon
I love. But she the middle child. Yes. And yeah, the favorite my little sister is I would venture to say maybe not some people's favorites. I like her and think she's fabulous, but I also it was kind of the middle child when I got adopted. And not a favorite. No. At all. I think my adopted mom would love to see me murder.
00:51:28:18 - 00:51:51:10
Kevin + Brandon
Don't murder me though, anyway. So it's awful. It's probably true. The last time I talked to her, she called me vile. Yeah, I also called her while Harold ended up being the his mom's favorite child. So from a young age, she instilled a sense of superiority in him that eventually led to him being, like, quite isolated. And he had very few friends.
00:51:51:12 - 00:52:15:03
Kevin + Brandon
So something about him being her favorite and she just like, gave him this complex. Then some people just didn't really like him. His mother was actually diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. And what's interesting about this is that he actually willingly oversaw her care. He was under 18, but he willingly oversaw her care as she declined. And he actually became fascinated with death.
00:52:15:03 - 00:52:39:16
Kevin + Brandon
Her treatment for pain, which like treatment for pain relief. Yes. So basically, they would give her morphine and he really foreshadowing, foreshadowing. He really loved the effects, the positive effects that had had on his. Well, that's something to be interested them. It's it's interesting. It's weird. I know. So his mother ends up dying on June 21st of 1963.
00:52:39:16 - 00:53:03:07
Kevin + Brandon
She was only 42. He was only 17. my gosh. Pretty young age to lose your mom. Yeah, in general. And two pretty young to die. Yeah. And there's really no notes about his dad at all because he was just out driving trucks all the time. He was probably just never around, I guess. So Harold obviously was devastated by his mother's death, and as a result, he was determined to go to medical school.
00:53:03:13 - 00:53:22:13
Kevin + Brandon
Two years later, he was admitted to Leeds University Medical School, but he did fail, even though he failed his entrance exam the first time he ended up getting in. But he also ended up receiving like a scholarship to go to medical to go to medical school. So it was probably the wrong decision. Thank you. During his first year in medical school, he was 19.
00:53:22:16 - 00:53:42:19
Kevin + Brandon
He ended up meeting his future wife, Primrose Ochs, to be asked to be on a primrose, which, by the way, isn't this from The Hunger Games? Like wasn't her classroom? Primrose I have not heard it since then, like it all, but apparently it's a thing. So they met on the bus. I don't know. I put that in there, but I think that it was like how many people have on a bus?
00:53:42:22 - 00:54:01:08
Kevin + Brandon
Just like when you're riding on a bus, are you like, Hello. Hi, my name's Brandon. Who are you? Where are you from? Can we date? I don't know. Listen, who I mean, that was before there was dating apps and we just had the eighties. I know, this was in 1960. It's in the 19. it was the beginning.
00:54:01:08 - 00:54:15:26
Kevin + Brandon
Part of the story was like, well, but still, there is no phones there. There's no no apps to meet up. No, I mean, it's the sixties, right, where I was going to meet. I think the buzzer sounds like a great and really it was like the era of love. So maybe they were just like, hey, on a segment, She was like, I don't know.
00:54:16:01 - 00:54:40:11
Kevin + Brandon
I don't know what they did then. I don't know. It was that probably not that we should ask our parents to get a He meets Primrose at 20. Harold ends up getting her pregnant and because of that it says, I read that both sets of parents forced them to marry. Premieres is actually only 17. what's interesting about that is like both sets of parents, what his mom was already done and dad was like driving a truck.
00:54:40:11 - 00:55:04:05
Kevin + Brandon
So I'm assuming that it was just Primrose as parents that were like, Yeah, you're pregnant, get married. Yeah. Harold eventually had a total of four kids. Sarah Christopher, Frederick Shipman, David Shipman and Sam Shipman. With that, if you see a picture of Harold, he looks like any bearded grandpa. He just looks like a normal that that he. Yeah.
00:55:04:10 - 00:55:31:05
Kevin + Brandon
Normal little Sadie. Normal. Dr. Sadie. So 1977 actually graduated and started at the Pontefract General Infirmary in Pontefract, west riding of Yorkshire, 1974. Shipman actually ended up joining a medical practice as a general practitioner at the Abraham or Ormerod Medical Center in Todmorden, West Yorkshire. Words are hard. They are especially British ones. So He actually became like a family practitioner.
00:55:31:05 - 00:55:52:05
Kevin + Brandon
He was a general practitioner. But at this specific job he was known as like a family practitioner. He actually did very well. But at this specific place, you know, this is 1974, he became very addicted to a painkiller called pethidine. And so in 1975, he was caught forging prescriptions for large amounts of this, Pepperdine for his own use.
00:55:52:05 - 00:56:18:12
Kevin + Brandon
And he was actually forced to leave the practice when he was caught by his medical colleagues. So, you know, he and he ended up having to pay 650, £600 as a fine, but then also went into to rehab. So not really. You should lose your medical license for something you so he didn't he eventually spent a brief period as a medical officer for Hatfield College in Durham and temporarily worked for the National Coal Board.
00:56:18:14 - 00:56:38:05
Kevin + Brandon
So in 1977, just a few years later, he eventually found another job and was accepted onto the staff at Donnybrook Medical Center in Hyde Greater, Manchester, where he became known as a hard working doctor. He actually stayed there through the 1980s. It's just weird that with that on his record. Well, and I wonder, like, what did the records look like at that?
00:56:38:06 - 00:57:01:17
Kevin + Brandon
Right? Did you have to write back? Yeah. So, yeah, it's just weird. Well, so anyway, he ended up staying there through the 1980s. His patients and colleagues, they trusted him severely, but his junior staff did say that he was quite arrogant. I mean, it sounds like he would be in 1980, he was actually interviewed by the Granada Television documentary World in Action.
00:57:01:17 - 00:57:28:06
Kevin + Brandon
And on that, he actually spoke about how mentally ill, how the mentally ill should be treated in the community, which I kind of wanted to go in and like, watch that real fast. But then when I read that, I was like, Granada. And it reminded me of when I was in high school in anatomy and I want to do like take that program in Granada, in Granada and like, wasn't allowed to because my parents like getting divorced and it's a whole mess, but it goes back into the trauma anyway for another story, maybe one next episode.
00:57:28:07 - 00:57:47:19
Kevin + Brandon
Maybe you'll hear that story on Patria Patrick and is just going to be all about our personal life stories, only our personal trauma. We will explain. Let's dive into each trauma now. Why am I so fucked up to survive? Maybe it was the time I was walking upstairs and my daughter Mum threw a box stone at me and called me Ros.
00:57:48:21 - 00:58:11:15
Kevin + Brandon
you know, crazy. Do some crazy shit. Just wave. Okay. Anyway, eventually his violent mood swings made the partnership untenable. I don't know if that's the right word to say until he and Untenable. Untenable? No, it's not unattainable. I think it's an unattainable untenable. I don't know. Anyway, it got city all right there. Your notes. I know, I know.
00:58:11:15 - 00:58:37:21
Kevin + Brandon
And then I'm like, Why don't I write? Like, I could really think like that? Yeah. Motherfucker. 1990 to 1993, he ended up setting up his own practice, his own surgery that they call it on the Market Street. Everything was seemingly okay until that was the wrong one. Let me try this one. There it is. You were looking for the term and now everything was fine until suspicion arose.
00:58:37:21 - 00:59:08:05
Kevin + Brandon
Where everything was fine until suspicion arose. Now that doesn't work either. Let me try that again. Everything was fine until da da da Suspicion, rumors. So. And in March of 1998. So look at that. We will see in the not long ago like we were actually wasn't that long ago around like eighth grade or something. So there was a doctor, Linda Reynolds, of the Brook surgery in Hyde which she was prompted by Deborah Massey from Frank Massey.
00:59:08:08 - 00:59:31:13
Kevin + Brandon
It was basically I totally repeated this word, but she was from Frank Massey and son's funeral parlor Doctor Linda Richards, prompted by Deborah Massey, expressed concerns to John Pollard, who was the coroner for South Manchester District, about the high death rate among shipments patients. So at this point in 1998, he had like a pretty high list of patients that were just like like his death rate was quite high.
00:59:31:14 - 00:59:51:28
Kevin + Brandon
Well, I mean, at that point, they have to track everything. So, yeah, but it's nobody like really keeping track of that. Well, so she actually reached out because she was concerned primarily at the high number of cremation forms for elderly women, specifically that had needed countersign. So she suspected that Shipman was killing his patients, but not in the sense of like they were.
00:59:51:29 - 01:00:12:21
Kevin + Brandon
He was purposely killing them, but like some kind of malpractice. Like he was doing something wrong. Yeah. Why would he be having such high? You'll see. So the this suspicion was actually reported to police, and I know this suspicion was reported to the police who were unable to find sufficient evidence to bring charges. So this was March 1988.
01:00:12:21 - 01:00:32:02
Kevin + Brandon
By April 17th, 1998, the police abandoned the investigation and Shipman was just free. He was just free to roam. So they had suspicions and then they were just like, okay, yeah. So basically these other medical professionals reported him and then the police opened an investigation, but they were like, Everything looks fine and there was nothing to be found.
01:00:32:02 - 01:00:47:21
Kevin + Brandon
No. Well, yes, They just didn't do a thorough investigation in general. They were like, no, this is a respected man, like his records seem to be okay, but why is it always like that? It's like when we were talking about the police at one time with a missing persons, like, well, does it matter if they're a respected person?
01:00:47:21 - 01:01:06:06
Kevin + Brandon
In fact, I would venture to say that sometimes this is probably more accurate, that people like he was a white male, wealthy doctor, well-respected. So how could he possibly money be doing this to people? He's not the kind of poor person to murder anywhere. But here we are, just like I was saying about like these fucking people attacking our community.
01:01:06:06 - 01:01:30:09
Kevin + Brandon
But really, these are pastors across the United States are fucking kids, you know? Okay, the murders. So this brings me back to you. Always do this like shoulder shrug. The murders I do is okay. We really should not have this board this literally. And it's going to be like, Don't fucking touch me, right? I mean, I bought the board, but still.
01:01:30:11 - 01:01:55:23
Kevin + Brandon
Okay, Brandon, this brings me to our opening June 24th, 1998, The death of Kathleen Grundy. R.I.P. Kathleen. Okay, So what was interesting about this time is that after he pronounced her dead and all that kind of stuff, Grundy's daughter, her name was Angela Woodruff, was actually a lawyer and she's actually who always handled her mother's affairs. So keep that in mind.
01:01:55:25 - 01:02:23:11
Kevin + Brandon
She actually ended up growing concerned because all of a sudden, the solicitor, Brian Burgess, informed her that a different will had been made by her mother that excluded her and her children, but left the bulk of her mother's estate to Shipman. This sounds familiar. I know. What's interesting, though, is that Angela had the will, had everything done because she handled all she did was affairs.
01:02:23:11 - 01:02:45:06
Kevin + Brandon
Yes. So that said, that actually raised some pretty, you know, big doubts at the authenticity of the will. So Angela actually ended up telling this Burgess guy, please, like, please report this, go to the police. And so he ended up doing that. And so an investigation was actually opened by Detective Superintendent Bernard Post to this. Bernard is one of those names.
01:02:45:06 - 01:03:07:23
Kevin + Brandon
BERNARD Yeah, that reminds me of the Santa Clause. BERNARD Yeah. Bernard Post This quickly came to the same conclusion that Angela did, and that was that that Will was not actually it was a real legitimate. Yeah. So that's shady. I know on August 1st, 1998, Kathleen Grundy's body was actually exhumed and examined, so they buried her and got her back into this a little bit more.
01:03:07:23 - 01:03:34:09
Kevin + Brandon
But for the most part, people were cremated. Yeah, at the direction of their doctor. Yeah, that's weird. This one was a really prescribed cremation. And I know it's really weird. Kathleen was not. So she was actually exhumed and examined, which actually found traces of diamorphine, morphine, concluding that she actually died of a morphine overdose that was administered within 3 hours of her death, which is exactly when Doctor Shipman had visited her, was there?
01:03:34:12 - 01:03:53:19
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah. So don't be suspicious. Don't really don't. Billions of dollars. I should have been in there. I agree. Cutting it will be one day. Those are fabulous humans. I also think that they were went to be well. No, but I meant something with them. Yeah those humans because if we have not already established and also an actor are you.
01:03:53:25 - 01:04:09:14
Kevin + Brandon
I am actually I think our last episode it was still during the SAG strike so the sex work is over, which I'm really happy about. I'm really glad that we held on for so long as well. But it's my first year of joining SAG, so it's not like I know that much. But also excited to get back to work and and be in more shit.
01:04:09:18 - 01:04:33:19
Kevin + Brandon
So yeah. Anyway, so I just said that like they had said, okay, this morphine was administered within 3 hours of her death. And so that's exactly when Shipman had visited her. So because of that, this actually caused this investigation to really kick start. So they actually ended up raiding Shipman's home and found a lot of medical records that were in his home, an odd collection of jewelry and an old typewriter.
01:04:34:07 - 01:05:06:10
Kevin + Brandon
the typewriter is interesting because the will it was typed as doctored on a specific typewriter. That typewriter. Yeah, that's evidence was found in his home. Why did you say it like so? I'm a storyteller. This happens. I know the story. I'll dive into the medical records in a little bit. But they were also virtual medical records as well, because in 1998, you know, certainly someone of his status would have had a computer at that point, and this was his own practice.
01:05:06:10 - 01:05:39:15
Kevin + Brandon
So with that fingerprint analysis of the forged will actually showed that Grundy Kathleen had never actually handled the will at all. Her handwriting, her hand prints were not on it, and which realistically, if it was her will, she would be touching it. Correct. A handwriting expert also concluded that her signature was a forgery. What's really interesting about this, they didn't put it in her, but within the research a few weeks prior to this, Kathleen had gone to see there's a doctor to my for Shipman had went to go see Dr. Shipman to talk about you know, something I think something her ear, something with her ears.
01:05:39:15 - 01:05:54:15
Kevin + Brandon
I think in that moment he was like, hey, this is what you need to do. I need your signature, though, So I'm going to get two people to come witness your signature. Those two people in the lobby came and witness the signature. She just did it on some envelope. That's that. She would just be like, Okay, yeah, let me just now let me give you a signature on or whatever.
01:05:54:15 - 01:06:12:19
Kevin + Brandon
And it had to do something with like something with a surgery that she was maybe having to have on her ears. I can't remember exactly what it was, but he had gotten her signature from that and then had these two people witness with their signatures. What he ended up doing was forging the will, having the two signatures of the witnesses put on to it, and her signature as well.
01:06:12:22 - 01:06:41:08
Kevin + Brandon
And so even the witnesses didn't sign that. So it's just a whole that's real fucked up. Nothing. None of her fingerprints determined. Okay, this is a forgery. So that's thoughtful. It is. It's calculated. You know, so the medical records alone told the investigators as they kind of dived into all of these medical records. It actually told the investigators that this specific case was one of a likely many in that Kathleen's death was actually a part of a much larger investigation.
01:06:41:08 - 01:07:04:07
Kevin + Brandon
Well, yeah, I mean, even just right there, that's very planned. That sounds very thought thought out. So well. And the medical records showed a significant amount of people dying following a visit from him, but also having been cremated, too. Yeah. So September 7th, 1998, Shipman was arrested. So June 24th, 1998, he goes to Kathleen Grundy's house, injects her with all this morphine.
01:07:04:07 - 01:07:26:00
Kevin + Brandon
She dies. And then by what is that, September of that same year he's arrested. So why the. Well, there's actually been a book by journalists Brian Whittle and Jean Ritchie called Prescription for Murder that actually reports two theories on why Shipman forged the will. Because in his history of killing, he had actually never done this ever. that's interesting.
01:07:26:00 - 01:07:44:18
Kevin + Brandon
And it's the thing that in India they actually said that their theories are, one, he wanted to be caught because his life was kind of out of control. Or two, he planned to retire at 55 and leave the country. It's like the only two reasons why they were like, this is those are two very different. They are very serious.
01:07:44:18 - 01:08:00:00
Kevin + Brandon
Right? But they're like, these are I want to run away and get away with it. Yeah. So I just want to be caught and put in prison like that. Yeah, that's kind of the nice thing that Shipman had never before attempted to profit from his killings. This was the first. He was also a doctor, so he obviously made money regardless, correct?
01:08:00:00 - 01:08:25:09
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah, he owned his own practice. So I'm sure that he was, you know, taking his dividend like he needed it. Yeah. All right. The arrest and trial. So the murder of Kathleen Grundy in 1998 was ultimately what led to Harold's crimes finally being discovered. Although police had dropped the investigation in April that same year because they dropped the investigation and that same year, his last three victims may not have been killed had they actually pursued the whole thing, actually.
01:08:25:14 - 01:08:51:17
Kevin + Brandon
So he ended up killing three more people during that time, which has shaped his trial actually began on October 5th of 1999 in Preston Crown Court. And it was presided over by Mr. Justice Forbes. So he was actually charged with 15 murders, as well as forging Kathy Kathleen Grundy's will. So they this number is much higher. But here's the 15 victims that he was actually charged for murdering.
01:08:51:17 - 01:09:32:25
Kevin + Brandon
Like in general, that was only these 15 murders. These 15 here in the Will Marie were West, Irene Turner, Lizzie Adams, Jean Lillie, Ivy Lomas, Muriel Grimshaw, Marie Quinn, Kathleen Wagstaff. Bianca Pomfret. Nora Nutall. Pamela Hillier. Maureen Ward. Winifred Miller. Joan Melia and Kathleen Grundy. And each of these victims actually has kind of a story of like their their final kind of moment of how he basically killed them, which I found to be very interesting, which they got from all of his medical records and shit, as well as like, you know, testimony from victims families.
01:09:32:28 - 01:09:47:13
Kevin + Brandon
So I'm actually going to I put a note here that I am going to put this link from the Manchester Evening News into our description on YouTube because I actually think that you guys should dive in and just kind of see because the list is quite like 15. This episode would be longer than the hour and a half that it probably is going to be.
01:09:47:15 - 01:10:23:09
Kevin + Brandon
So I didn't include it, but I will put that into our episode description. And that's just like, go check it out, because It's interesting to kind of see his pattern of of killing and what he did in the way that he did it. Yeah. So police actually establish that. SHIPMAN would alter medical notes directly after killing a patient to ensure his account matched the historical records in the case of his first victim Kathleen, he actually said that she was abusing cocaine or abusing some kind of a drug that looks like morphine postmortem.
01:10:23:12 - 01:10:46:02
Kevin + Brandon
And so he like, went and then like shift and changed it. Yeah. Shipman didn't realize his charges or his changes to his medical records. It would be time stamped on the computer that he used. So it would always show that he would update and change it after somebody had died. That's not a good look. And no additional exhumations and autopsies took place leading to additional charges, which is how we got these other 15 people that he had killed in there as well.
01:10:46:02 - 01:11:09:12
Kevin + Brandon
Again, go read that in the description. But during the trial, victim accounts actually showed that he had a severe lack of compassion and would disregard the wishes of attending relatives and had a severe reluctance to attempt to revive patients. He just he just wanted people to die. He just wanted people to die. So Shipman urged families, which is what I said earlier.
01:11:09:12 - 01:11:37:25
Kevin + Brandon
Shipman urged families to cremate their relatives in large in the large number of his cases, stressing that no further investigation of the death was necessary. And if that's your doctor telling you that, yeah, but that's still where the doctor would tell you that it is, but a lot of people would just do it. Yeah, which is interesting. So, you know, January 31st, 2000, this is after six days of deliberation, the Jury found Shipman guilty of killing 15 patients by lethal injections of diamorphine and forging the will of Kathleen Grundy.
01:11:37:25 - 01:11:58:27
Kevin + Brandon
He actually ended up being sentenced to 15 consecutive life sentences and received four years with the forging of the will of his victims. And these are not two of the 15. And I'll tell you how many there were. His youngest victim was Peter Lewis, who was 41, to which he was not charged and convicted. His oldest victim was Annie Cooper, 93, to which he was not charged and convicted.
01:11:58:29 - 01:12:18:23
Kevin + Brandon
So when he was the judge recommended him never to be released. There were no survivors. Not one person survived him at all. He had no patients that came out and was like I went through him and I was fine. Not none, but he only focused on the old not elderly, but older. No, it was typically the elderly or so if they die on at all.
01:12:18:23 - 01:12:39:17
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah. So it's like terminal people in elderly people. But it was actually more women. Most were older women who he killed in their own homes by injecting them with a lethal, lethal dose of diamorphine grade heroin, basically. So most victims were in good health and of an older age. So when Shipman certified their deaths, the cause was often registered as dying due to old age.
01:12:39:19 - 01:13:00:12
Kevin + Brandon
Here, of course, he would have a lot of death. No, I am actually glad because I when you said the that most of the female patients were cremated, I was hoping it wasn't because he had like raped or molested them and then he wanted to burn any kind of evidence. Yeah, there wasn't anything that wasn't right there. That's interesting because it wasn't like a you know, I mean, who knows why people kill?
01:13:00:12 - 01:13:16:22
Kevin + Brandon
But I know that there's often times like a sexual gratification and there was none of that for this, like at all. I think that he had a God actually it goes into a little bit more, but I think he had a God complex and wanted this control over life and death for people and thought that he was the one to administer it.
01:13:16:22 - 01:13:37:26
Kevin + Brandon
Because, I mean, why, why now? Why shouldn't it be him so. GROSS So anyway, he murdered his victims quietly, coldly and systematically. And did his patients lie in a severe betrayal trust and think about the oath that doctors take? Like he really betrayed that in general, because all of these people are thinking that somebody is healing them and he's killing them.
01:13:38:03 - 01:13:59:02
Kevin + Brandon
Yes, it's awful. His motives actually remain a complete mystery because he would never confess to why or even that he did anything wrong. that's really fucked up. Yeah. So that many people you could you should at least say, like, give people some kind of understanding. Something like your. Yeah. So anyway, he remember he had four kids. Yeah.
01:13:59:04 - 01:14:28:17
Kevin + Brandon
And his wife. So they were all given new identities. After the trial on February 11th of 2000, the general medical formally struck Shipman off its register. So he lost his medical license, obviously. So. So Shipman actually consistently denied his guilt and disputed the scientific evidence against him. He never made any statements about his actions ever. His wife, Primrose, actually stood by him throughout the entire travel or travel, the entire trial and continued writing him love letters when he was locked up.
01:14:28:17 - 01:14:50:08
Kevin + Brandon
She actually stayed committed to him the entire time through which I thought was really interesting. So after his trial, which was September 1st 2000, the shipment inquiry started, which was chaired by the High Court Judge Dame Janet Smith. I think it's called I think you say Dame, dear me. Anyway, they investigated all deaths certified by Shipman throughout his career.
01:14:50:10 - 01:15:07:28
Kevin + Brandon
80% of his victims were women, which is crazy. So the shipment and I wonder if it's like some weird sick thing about his mother. Okay. Thank you. So I think so I mean, that's what it sounds like. Yeah. And I think that that's where he got this God complex to be. Like, I can handle whatever. I don't think that he did it out of empathy.
01:15:07:28 - 01:15:32:20
Kevin + Brandon
I think that he legitimately liked killing people and deciding who got to live and die. Yeah, but ultimately, I do think that it was probably spawned by that experience with his mom, with that situation. But then also watching. It's like some Norman Bates, you know. So the shipment inquiry actually is ended up being a 2000 page and concluded that it was likely that Shipman had murdered at the very least 218 of his patients.
01:15:32:20 - 01:15:53:04
Kevin + Brandon
That's that. And that he became addicted to killing. So what's interesting about this case specifically is that much of Britain's legal structure concerning health care and medicine was reviewed and modified as a direct, indirect result of shipments claims, especially after the findings of the shipment inquiry, which was led by that judge, Dame Janet Smith. How do they not get it?
01:15:53:04 - 01:16:15:00
Kevin + Brandon
And charges on the other ones because they didn't know. Actually, that was some of it. But they were like, I mean, he's already serving 15 life sentences. There's no reason to pursue and 200 taxpayer dollars on it. Yeah. Dame Janet Smith, a judge is quoted as saying, I think the nearest I can get to explaining what motivated him was that I think that he felt he knew best when it was time for somebody to die.
01:16:15:03 - 01:16:36:22
Kevin + Brandon
I suppose in a way it made him compare himself to God. So there was also a BBC documentary called The Shipman Files. There was a psychologist named Dr. David Holmes that was on that, and he actually told the BBC that Shipman thought he was a God. So he was quoted as saying he saw no one as being superior to him in his own mind, in his own eyes, he was some sort of medical god.
01:16:36:24 - 01:16:56:00
Kevin + Brandon
That's so gross. I wanted to put this in here because I think that this is really valuable to add, because I think when people think of like, yeah, okay, so he killed them with morphine. It must have they just must have fell asleep. That is not the case. Death by opioid overdose, specifically is sure. It can be like somebody kind of goes.
01:16:56:00 - 01:17:22:17
Kevin + Brandon
But it's not. It's not. So the symptoms are constricted. Pupils rapid or slow heartbeat, confusion feeling faint or actually fainting, constipation, nausea, spasms of the stomach or intestinal tract vomiting, low blood pressure, weak pulse, possible seizures, visual or auditory hallucinations, muscle stiffness, dry mouth, difficulty breathing. my gosh. So if you think about that, I think that this has been depicted in several films where you see somebody OD'ing.
01:17:22:17 - 01:17:38:04
Kevin + Brandon
That's what these people experience. Yes. No, that sounds exactly what. And imagine being like, what the fuck is happening right in your head? And you're sitting there being like, I was just injected by my doctor and I'm Yeah, let me to let me try to call him real quick. There is one thing that I is about liquor. He is liquor.
01:17:38:07 - 01:18:00:03
Kevin + Brandon
I told him there is a couple of things that I missed in here, which I think is saying I told you that he would urge families to create their cremate their relatives. So he would also in moments of somebody like dying, he would pretend to call emergency services in the presence of relatives, then would cancel the call when the patient was discovered to be dead.
01:18:00:08 - 01:18:24:19
Kevin + Brandon
So his telephone records showed zero calls ever being made. that's fucked up. Emergency service. That's fucked up. Especially in front of the family. Like that. Some. Yeah. So there was also evidence of his hoarding and he would falsely prescribe patients morphine who didn't need it and overprescribe patients who did. And then he would collect the unused from his deceased patients.
01:18:24:21 - 01:18:42:04
Kevin + Brandon
So he had, like, a whole bunch. It was very methodical. He knew what he was doing. He had it planned. Such a fucking liquor. Okay. Harold's death because the motherfucker died. Interestingly enough, I told you that his wife, Primrose, kind of stood by him throughout the entire time. Whatever. He ended up moving to this other prison. Did she believe him?
01:18:42:10 - 01:18:55:20
Kevin + Brandon
That he took them to her? They all stood by him the entire time, which is crazy. Now they all have. Which I feel like his whatever and one of his kids is like, you're is a little bit younger than your brother. that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it doesn't matter what you do if you are doing that.
01:18:55:22 - 01:19:19:21
Kevin + Brandon
If you're you've killed that many people. I don't feel like you should have anybody around. fuck you. I don't think you have good in you, regardless of what you've done in your life. January 13th, 2004, Middle of the night. Shipman, who was living in his jail cell, meticulously crafted a noose out of his bedsheets, which he tied to the window bars of his cell, hanging himself and killing himself.
01:19:19:24 - 01:19:38:26
Kevin + Brandon
This happened to one day before his 50th birthday and just four years into his prison sentence. And it's said that he may have done this because had he reached the age of 60, the money that he would have gotten, which went to his wife would have been a lot less. So they said that he may have killed himself so that his wife could benefit from more money before his death.
01:19:38:26 - 01:19:56:25
Kevin + Brandon
A lot of his privileges been taken away, which means he meant he could no longer call his wife from prison. I read that somewhere. But Shipman, to this day, happens to be the only British doctor to ever have been convicted of murdering his patients. There's been other that's interesting. He's the only one that's been actually convicted, which I found to be really interesting.
01:19:56:25 - 01:20:21:29
Kevin + Brandon
And then also they identified at least 218 victims. But it's estimated his total victim count could be around to 50, but could be as high as 459. So he was a fucking butler in serial killer. Yeah. Fuck you, dude. That was Harold. There was a lot of. I know I can. That's so awful to hear. Revenge of older people.
01:20:22:05 - 01:20:41:27
Kevin + Brandon
You know, it's. It's actually in for no reason. Not even like there's. There's nothing like that. So fucked up. Yeah So. Dr. Harold Shipman. Yeah, He died in 2004. So ship doctor known as Dr. Death, The Angel of Death. And the good doctor not so good doctor. Also known as Harold. You're a bootlegger. Is a doctor who killed.
01:20:42:04 - 01:21:02:19
Kevin + Brandon
Well, that's not fun. why not go to the doctor? Stop it. But still, it's creepy because you just don't ever. Well, Jesus, in my. We'll do another doctors that kill because there are so there's so many cases of doctors. Like one of them was this woman who, like shot babies with air and killed babies and the like.
01:21:02:20 - 01:21:22:20
Kevin + Brandon
It's fucked up, baby. Fucked up. Yeah. That's why I was like, I can't do that one today. It's so crazy because I feel like as a doctor, your people are going to die under your care, right? So it's like, how do you find out who is doing it? Because they're a murderer or who is doing it because they're I mean, they're not trying to, but people are just dying.
01:21:22:24 - 01:21:43:22
Kevin + Brandon
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this one was obviously a really fucked up case, just like mine. No, I know. And I chose another one in Britain. You did? The British one, which is kind of interesting. It's my heritage. I'm like, really, really Scottish and English and Irish. So they're not British, so I'm not British. I was born in America.
01:21:43:22 - 01:22:05:19
Kevin + Brandon
So that was episode six from that, I think that was a long one. It was well, it was a long one. But here's a cool thing. Again, like we said at the beginning, couple of things. Our Minnesota hometown murder is it starts this Thursday. So this Thursday, November 30th, our first episode comes out not a solid case, but definitely tuned in because it is something that's kind of important.
01:22:05:23 - 01:22:26:25
Kevin + Brandon
It's kind of going along. And I'm glad that these fabulous humans reached out so that we can bring awareness for them. But also email us right in your hometown, Murder or Murder at Homicide podcast coms that you can share your hometown murders with us and everything. Yes. And and don't forget, what's the T giveaway is also happening so go rate and review us specifically on Apple podcasts.
01:22:26:25 - 01:22:43:23
Kevin + Brandon
But you can also do on Spotify as well or both if you're feeling really sassy because we would love to hear from you and keep growing our fabulous Through podcast. Yeah, all of us and all the socials follow us on the social everything. I miss Anna today, right? I do. Or still get up to her little sassy self.
01:22:43:23 - 01:22:58:13
Kevin + Brandon
I know it's kind of fun to. Do it on our own, which I know will happen again because. for sure it will. We don't live in New York City full time and she does. So we'll be jumping back and forth. But it was kind of fun to just hang with you. It was great. Brian, I love your little face.
01:22:58:15 - 01:23:29:15
Kevin + Brandon
So cute. All right, cool. So our next episode, we don't have a theme for episode. Episode seven might be Host's choice, so we might just know. Okay, Did you ever watch the show Seventh Heaven when you were younger? Yeah. We should do. Episode seven on Religious cult leaders that Killed. That could be a fun one. Episode seven You're going to have just, I don't know, maybe we'll do that.
01:23:29:15 - 01:24:03:13
Kevin + Brandon
We don't know Episode seven quite yet, but we will. It's not a bad idea. Yeah, so stay tuned. Yeah, you. You'll have to listen to find out. Listen to. Find out. Friends. Thanks for playing along. We're going to send you out with some outro music. Brandon, you should try the now. Are we ready? Thanks everybody. Bye