Cult Killers | Homocide True Crime Podcast
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rding to Human Rights Watch, Black Trans women are at heightened risk of violence at the hands of strangers, partners, family members, and law enforcement. From 2016 to 2021, at least 88 percent of the transgender people kill
Episode 07
Today, we're talking about the true crime cult classics... Murders, that is. These killings have an extra sprinkling of absolutely insane mind control. We've all heard not to drink the Kool-aid, but what about willingly following an openly violent weirdo? Seems harmless!
Kevin is kicking us off with the Kirtland cult killings. Imagine being told you're going on a lovely little wilderness trip and being shot and unceremoniously buried on top of the rest of your family? Rude. This is the story of Jeffrey Lundgren and the small paramilitary religious cult that killed the Avery family on the night of April 17, 1989. The reasoning? Well, Dennis Avery was speaking out a bit too much, and the kids were "unruly." So naturally, the whole cult decided it was perfectly acceptable to sacrifice them!
Then Brandon tells us the tale of how one man's "internal Jesus" led to a truly horrifying scene years after his death. Basically, Jakob Lorber thought himself a prophet, wrote all of those internal Jesus thoughts down, and a cult formed after his death. Then, a little creep named Harald Alexander had a baby named Frank and decided that the baby was a prophet. And guess what!? His whole family went along with it. Like, so much so that when Frank declared "the killing hour," his mother and sisters were like, "Okay, slay me, brother, that's totally fine!" WTF!
Moral of the story? Don't believe anyone that tells you they're a prophet.
And as always, leave us a 5-star review!! Now is the moment so you can be a part of our "What's the tea!?" giveaway. We're starting our own cult with this pod but we promise not to murder you soooo, you're welcome.
Transcript:
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:25
Unknown
Welcome to Homicide, The podcast.
00:00:07:28 - 00:00:33:25
Unknown
I'm Kevin. And I'm Brendan. And welcome to Homicide. The podcast is welcome. This is episode seven. Yes, this is episode seven. And guess what we have. And here she's back. Hey, basically, all of you told us that you like anymore, so thank God she's top that and we are so excited to have you back. We are. It was weird doing it without you.
00:00:34:00 - 00:00:54:26
Unknown
Yeah, I know. It was weird editing it for the first time, Hearing it right without you hearing me like, what's going to happen? I know. And it happened to be, like, the longest episode we've decided to do, too. Literally, afterwards, you were like, shit. And it's going to be mad. I was like, I was just like, Damn, I wish I could say this at this point.
00:00:54:28 - 00:01:12:10
Unknown
Right? Or Damn, I wanted to make fun of Brandon mispronouncing another word. I don't know if you noticed, but he did a elided and I was like, Brandon. No, I pull clips as I'm editing the episode and I pulled a bunch of clips and then I was like, Wait, I need to just like, choose what? my God, I love.
00:01:12:10 - 00:01:33:26
Unknown
You're welcome. One mispronunciation. And I remember from an episode and it was. Yup. All right. Well, just a couple of announcements which we have ongoing. First off, we have started our hometown murders. So please send us your murders. We've gotten a few already. We have got three already. Yep. If you follow us, you'll notice that the first one was taken down.
00:01:33:28 - 00:02:00:16
Unknown
And it was taken down because of very specific reasons. It did very well. It did. It was a great story, but people did not understand our branding, so we took it down. But anyway, so please don't write us in on any current unsolved murders. Thank you. But from that. Yes. Please send in your home Hometown Murders to murder Homicide podcast dot com and we will basically read what you share with us.
00:02:00:17 - 00:02:17:18
Unknown
Yeah. Do the research and send it our way. Yeah. Will read. I don't know if we'll do our own fact checking, so just just take that as a warning. Whatever you send us, we're going to read. So we'll, we'll decide what we'll do. But anyway, and then the other thing that we're doing right now is what's the to you give away?
00:02:17:24 - 00:02:45:07
Unknown
yes, that's right. It's the giveaway we're doing to get some more reviews on our ABL podcast. so I forgot what it is. Okay, So basically, it's been a little bit since we've recorded last. So what are we doing? Go leave us a review on Apple Podcasts specifically. Yes. Write us five stars, don't do anything else. And then when you do that, take a screenshot of your review, insert on your social platforms and and tag homicide the podcast.
00:02:45:13 - 00:03:08:12
Unknown
Take a screenshot before you send it in because it will disappear for a couple of days or hours or however long or how long. This couple loves to take its time. It does. It takes quite a long time to update. So annoying, but it's like the most powerful. So please leave us your reviews. Yes that is running that that can't the contest the giveaway is running from now until the last episode of December because we announce winners on the episode on the second.
00:03:08:18 - 00:03:25:14
Unknown
Yeah and you get we didn't talk about you get you get some swag items from homicide you get a little mug or a cup and some other stuff. But then also the chance to either be on the show with us, tell a story, or listen to us tell the story and react to it. all of the options.
00:03:25:20 - 00:03:47:25
Unknown
And you see how powerful it was to have Anna here. So just imagine you in that position, right? Well, not having it for us to have one producer, but yeah, I'm sorry. Well, I said, adding a fourth into our threesome. Ooh, ooh. Non-sexual three. Saucy, spicy. Okay, What a great segue into what the episode is. Yeah. So it just went really well.
00:03:47:28 - 00:04:04:22
Unknown
Yeah. So. Brandon. Yeah. So I think in our last episode we said that it might be host choice or you throw out, you threw out. We were like, You don't know what we're doing. Yeah. And I was like, I think so. I think I was like seventh heaven. I don't know. Something about seventh Heaven. One of our listeners was like, I love that show.
00:04:04:22 - 00:04:25:28
Unknown
And I'm like, yes. Yeah, I actually do too. But well, anyway, wasn't that we decided to do cult killing. So we each have a cop murderer and probably ones that you haven't maybe heard of or you may have. But yeah, I heard of this one. I hadn't heard of mine either. But that doesn't mean that I didn't forget about hearing it at some point.
00:04:26:00 - 00:04:47:05
Unknown
You know, there's so many stories to keep track of, right? So that's true. That is very, very, very true. All right. Well, it's your turn to go first. You want to know you want to jump right in? Yeah. All right. Episode seven Court Killings, My episode, you guys, I named it, obviously. It is. It is called Dear Jeffrey.
00:04:47:07 - 00:05:07:07
Unknown
You were no Prophet. Your dick. That's the name of my. So that was the two. The lengthy good one. It was. Dear Jeffrey. You were no prophet, you Dick. That was it. It's always funny when people are like, I'm the prophet sent from God and people are just so dumb that they follow them. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's, of course, is that they're always even the one I'm going to talk about.
00:05:07:11 - 00:05:32:00
Unknown
Religious based. Well, yeah. I mean, most cults are. Yeah, I know. Crazy. All right, Well, because most religions are cults. Yep. All right. It was April 10th, 1989, when two people ordered by their leader began digging a six foot by seven foot by four foot pit in the middle of a barn in the back of a farmhouse in Kirtland, Ohio.
00:05:32:02 - 00:05:53:00
Unknown
This is so dramatic. The storytelling is impeccable. Thank you. Although, like, what's it is a similar is that like. Yeah and I can hear my like right you need some water I poured you know it's come up cheering also I just love that you started off with they were ordered and they just went and did it I know isn't that crazy like cults are crazy like absolutely so.
00:05:53:05 - 00:06:24:03
Unknown
Yeah. Weird shit. Okay, so what would begin as a dinner party would end and a planned night full of lookouts, chainsaws, duct tape, video games, horses and murder. That's a very interesting selection of video games. Or how were they playing video games on horses? You'll see. While running chainsaws with duct tape? Yep. So this is the story of the Kirtland cult killings.
00:06:24:05 - 00:06:43:09
Unknown
Bum, bum, bum dum dum dum. Okay, here's what's interesting. So I never knew about this one. Have you guys heard about this one? I had a buzz on my mike. I was trying to get without making noises. We'll put that on camera. Thank you. Are welcome. Anyway, have you guys ever heard of this one? The Kirtland cult killing?
00:06:43:09 - 00:06:57:27
Unknown
I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, besides the fact that you told me the name of it the other day, I don't think. I don't Now. I'm sharing my names with Brandon because I'm like, Well, shit, now I have titles now and they get more creative with them and I can only say, you know, weird shit. Okay. Anyway, okay.
00:06:57:29 - 00:07:21:03
Unknown
So the Kirtland cult started with a man named Jeffrey Don Lundgren. So Jeff was the son of Don and Lois Gabrielle Lundgren, and he was born on May 3rd, 1950, Independence, Missouri. he was born in Missouri. Well, that says a lot. I feel like a lot of killers are named John, too. Yeah. John Wayne Gacy. You've never met anyone from Missouri?
00:07:21:04 - 00:07:43:05
Unknown
I haven't. Sorry. It's Jeff. He's totally said John. Jeff. I think Jeffrey Dahmer. I said, John. No, you said John. I said you said John. You said John Brennan. John. So tough, right? Going on, Brennan, you've ruined my story. I'm so sorry. Keep going. Laughs Kidding. Okay. Jeffrey Which is the same as John, right? Jeffrey Dahmer Yeah.
00:07:43:07 - 00:08:06:26
Unknown
Wonder there's there's probably other. Jeff How is that the same as John? I no, I said mine is Jeff is the same as Jeffrey Dahmer as in John and Jeffrey are different names. I totally did. The sense that just shocked me. I was like I just was like what would not actually two different names in an English. All right.
00:08:06:28 - 00:08:28:24
Unknown
Anyways, okay, so Jeff, the dad actually worked in construction and his mom was a stay at home mom. Their family was actually very active. Participants in the local reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints, otherwise known as the are LDS Mormons. Basically. They're Mormons. Yeah. Which is really interesting, which I did start to do a deep dive on like the LDS and the art world.
00:08:28:26 - 00:08:53:25
Unknown
It's it's a lot. I actually almost did another murder that was in based off of the or whatever. Yeah I can't remember his, but yeah I got it What is it are are LDS we got way did. Well the LDS scene the Netflix documentary about the guy That's so horrifying. It's disgusting. Yeah. God. These people talk about cults and brainwash all in the name of religion.
00:08:53:25 - 00:09:18:29
Unknown
So these guys were Mormons. So it is said that Don Jeffs, the dad, was actually very strict and would seriously punish them for little childish things. So his mom was also said to be like distant and inflexible, which is really weird to describe her. But because my mind went right to like, she doesn't have money. Yeah, girls should've done yoga, but she's not.
00:09:18:29 - 00:09:42:28
Unknown
That's not what it's like morally. Yeah. So according to according to Jeff, he says that he was physically abused as a child, but those allegations were never confirmed. But he did say them. So while he was growing up, he had very few friends and he was considered an arrogant person who was a loner by Elvis former classmates. So he was also known through witness accounts to abuse animals.
00:09:42:28 - 00:10:08:00
Unknown
Once nailing a rabbit to a piece of wood before beating it to death. my gosh. We should have known. Yes. All right. So just that had a passion for hunting and guns, naturally. Of course. And so as Jeff got older, Don, his dad would spend hours teaching him how to care for and maintain firearms, eventually teaching him how to use them for hunting and survival survival.
00:10:08:03 - 00:10:26:14
Unknown
So I kind of got stuck on that, too. I'm like, what was he going to do for survival? Because hunting is just I mean, that makes sense. Survival is like, you know, I guess I go hand in hand. Yeah. All right. So, Jeff, so basically taught him how to kill someone. That's all that was. Sure. Which will come into play.
00:10:26:16 - 00:10:44:25
Unknown
All right. Jeff graduated high school and enrolled at Central Missouri State University, where he majored in electronics. I didn't know that was a major. And during his sophomore year, he spent a majority of his time at the LDS student house. There is where he met two people named Keith Johnson and Alice Keeler. Both are important figures, but Alice specifically.
00:10:44:25 - 00:11:07:09
Unknown
So Alice Keeler, who had a bit of a rough time after she was after she turned 12 due to her dad being diagnosed with M.S. because of that diagnosis, he actually ended up turning violent due to the medications that he took and her mom ended up working full time. She had siblings. So she actually had to take care of both her dad and her siblings during the day.
00:11:07:12 - 00:11:32:01
Unknown
So it kind of forced her into, you know, yeah, being a little bit of a loner herself. And so she also dove into their local church group, also Mormon. So with that, she graduated high school and also enrolled at Central Missouri State University. So she became even more active in her church group and started to fall for Jeff, who also was in the church group through their school.
00:11:32:03 - 00:11:57:22
Unknown
And so they started spending a lot of time together. And by 1969, Alice got pregnant and her and Jeff ended up dropping out of college. And if you know anything about Mormonism, that was not good. No. Yeah, because yeah, that having sex. Yeah. Without being married because a marital sexual intercourse. Yeah. So Jeffs parents were so disappointed that they actually refused to attend the couple's wedding in 1970, which I thought was interesting.
00:11:57:25 - 00:12:24:19
Unknown
So although they're never mentioned again. so anyway, Jeff then enlisted in the U.S. Navy and served about four years as an electronics technician before he received an honorable discharge in July of 1974 while he was serving his first son, Damon Paul, and his second son, Jason Don, were both born. So both Jeff and Alice were living in San Diego, which is where he was stationed when he was discharged.
00:12:24:19 - 00:12:50:00
Unknown
And then shortly after him being discharged, she became he became even more active in the LDS church and would often seek out friends that he could convert to their faith. L That's so creepy. I agree. So leave people alone, I think, you know. So anyway, due to Jeff's horrible attitude and irresponsibility, Jeff could not hold down a job.
00:12:50:02 - 00:13:11:21
Unknown
So they decided to move back to Independence, Missouri, which is where he was born. And by June of 1979, their third kid, her name was Christine, Michelle was born. So after that, Jeff apparently became fairly abusive and would abuse Alice, who's now his wife and his children, and at one point just pushed Alice down a flight of stairs so hard that it caused her spleen to rupture.
00:13:12:09 - 00:13:33:18
Unknown
my God, would send her to the hospital. Obviously, that's that's how hard you have to throw somebody for that, too. So rude. Yeah, but why? I mean, the most religious people, the most abusive, You know, I agree. Because they've got a God complex and. Yeah, wonder why. Because all they have to do is do for hilarious an hour, Father and I'll be saved.
00:13:33:20 - 00:13:56:15
Unknown
That's I know that's my experience of the religion. God. All right. So cut to 1980. Their fourth child, Caleb Matthew, is actually born. So I put in here that it's actually worth noting that it's said that the last two of their kids were purposeful from Alice because she really wanted to make sure that she held her marriage together and wanted to curtail Jeff's wandering.
00:13:56:15 - 00:14:16:03
Unknown
I so she just said, I'm going to have babies with this man so he doesn't leave me. They had already had their other kids, but they purposefully continued purposely. It got to, yeah, more so in 1981, which is never a reason to stay with someone know that, or a reason to like fill a void in your life.
00:14:16:03 - 00:14:43:02
Unknown
Yet? No. If you have a void in your life, don't have a child. Don't bring the child just to stay with somebody. Hello. That's gross. Weird. And I do have anything to say about that. I'm I just think that most of the time when men become parents, they, like, ruin women's lives. So I don't know why having more kids with a guy that hates you is going to be very better.
00:14:43:04 - 00:15:06:14
Unknown
Yeah, it's not weird. He's just going to become more and more detached. I actually like Alice. What were you doing? All right, so 1981, Jeff was asked to join the LDS priesthood, but this is also when he says he lost all faith in the church and its teachings. So apparently allowing women to be ordained as priests in the LDS is what really pissed him off the most.
00:15:06:16 - 00:15:27:11
Unknown
Well, of course. Yeah. So from that, he's a white male. Sure. Straight and more white male. And I don't actually know too much about Mormonism in general, but isn't the, ah, LDS the one where polygamy is the thing that's LDS? wow. That's one of the days are LDS. So LDS or. Well, there's like there is a different Mormonism that are there.
00:15:27:11 - 00:15:54:28
Unknown
Yeah. For the Mormon the LDS is the Netflix one. Yeah so that's where like the LDS are just regular Mormons. Yes. Like they just wear regular clothes and I think so. But it's called like the real house organized or part of what The Real Housewives of Utah are of salt. yeah. Anybody from Salt Lake? Yeah. There's a few that shout out to anyone in Utah and yeehaw Yukon.
00:15:54:28 - 00:16:11:11
Unknown
Yeah. So that's really funny. Yeah. Well, and I just went to high school with quite a few people that were Mormons. In fact, there were a ton of Mormons. And in yours? Yeah, we had a mormon family that lived down the street that was really trying to get my mom or my adopted mom to, like, convert to them.
00:16:11:13 - 00:16:33:29
Unknown
We used to. We lived on a farm. They lived on a farm. We used to have dual family slaughter production lines for slaughtering chickens. It was fucked up. Yeah. Kevin's life is so interesting, and I know my adopted sister brand listens to this, and she was a part of it, so. Yeah, really weird shit in art. Yeah, well, you just, like, take a chicken, chop it.
00:16:34:01 - 00:16:51:20
Unknown
Yeah, Basically. Like they wanted me to join the moon to do the chopping, and I was like, Fuck you, I ain't doing that. And so I was like, in charge of after they, like, boiled them for a little bit, like plucking their feathers out. It was horrible, awful, awful. Like I hated it. I guess that's part of life trauma, you know, there's a lot more.
00:16:51:20 - 00:17:08:05
Unknown
I mean, you heard my rooster story about my adoptive mother making me kill the rooster. And closer. You know that. Yeah. Yeah. Fucked up shit. Which again. Okay, But nobody on the podcast that's listening now was there to listen to that. So what's that story before we get back? Yeah, I want to say, I mean, we can save it for another day.
00:17:08:08 - 00:17:24:28
Unknown
No, because now everyone's going to be like a ton of suspense. I know. So that's okay. Real quickly, there was one day when I was in high school where I took care of the chickens on our farm. Okay? So we lived on a farm in parts of Colorado. I took care of all of the chickens in general. We had a lot because we had a whole chicken coop in our barn.
00:17:24:28 - 00:17:45:20
Unknown
Yeah, and anyway, one day I was in charge of giving them food and water, opening their chicken coop, all that kind of shit every day. And so one morning I just forgot. Somehow I don't know how, but I forgot to let them out. And I think was probably because I was out there late doing whatever and collecting eggs and just did shit at night that I just forgot that morning or whatever.
00:17:45:20 - 00:18:07:25
Unknown
I had so many fucking chores as a goddamn 14 year old or 15 year old. That's like So anyway, because my adoptive mom and she loves dictating all these chores, but that bitch didn't do anything. But anyway, you can tell she's a major person. But anyway, she. So I left them in was a little bit of a warm day.
00:18:07:28 - 00:18:25:26
Unknown
And so I got back home from high school and the chicken coop was still closed. And I walk into my adoptive mom being such an asshole, angry at me for not letting them out of the chicken coop. So I'm like, Why? You know, I was starting to be a little bit sassy at that time. Now I'm like a lot.
00:18:25:26 - 00:18:46:18
Unknown
But I was like, Why would you not let them out? Because it was still closed and it was hot. And she was like, I'm not going to go out there and do that. That's your job or whatever. I'm like, bit You like those animals were just there all day. You could have done something. So I went out, I let them out, and then she met me in the pasture and she was like, in as your punishment, you need to kill the mean rooster, because we had a pretty mean rooster.
00:18:46:25 - 00:19:10:08
Unknown
Little thing like kind of punishment is that. Yeah, kill the mean rooster. So, yeah, ma'am, that's how murderers are made. Yeah, she's lucky. So anyway, I had to basically take this chicken, the rooster, into our dog run, which was like attached to our, our house. And it took me about 3 hours because I was, like, sobbing and it was horrible cause I did want to kill anything like this.
00:19:10:10 - 00:19:28:28
Unknown
Horrible. So I had to. Yeah, it took me about that long to, like, chop its head off. When I finally did it, it was horrible. There was the blood because I didn't do it right. So there's just fucking awful. It's messy. And so anyway, my adoptive mom likes her and she was like, And now we're having that for dinner.
00:19:29:01 - 00:19:48:07
Unknown
So I know I flipped in my mind. Like, what? Like what? A better way to make a traumatic experience even more traumatic. Okay. You killed her. No, you have to eat it. So, I mean, something sounds like a cult leader, Something clicked in my mind, and I ripped the fuck out of it, and so we wouldn't be able to eat it, right?
00:19:48:07 - 00:20:02:26
Unknown
And nobody eats a rooster. It's not like you eat meat, chickens, meat. Chickens are like a different. Yeah. Anyway, and so I ended up finishing it all up. It was messy and it was all in my hands. I went to the back door of our patio and she opened it up and she's like, What is that? You know?
00:20:02:27 - 00:20:23:04
Unknown
And I, I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was something like, We're not eating this, fuck you. And I threw it onto the ground right in front of her and walked into the house. That was your mike drop moment. I got your rooster drunk. Anyway, it was horrible. It was incredibly traumatic. And it's interesting enough, when Brandon met her, she brought this shit up and she thought it was so funny.
00:20:23:09 - 00:20:40:07
Unknown
She did? And what did she say? She was like, Well, you never. You never forgot to open up that chicken coop again to Joe. She was so proud of herself as like a teacher. It's like a parent moment. So Amazing Grace. The amount of she will probably never understand the amount of trauma that she inflicted on her kids.
00:20:40:10 - 00:21:00:10
Unknown
But what's really fucked up is that I came from that I was adopted. I was in foster care for a reason. Yeah. And she instilled even more on a kid that already went through some shit. So luckily I'm good. Like I work through all my shit. But she will probably never understand the the severity of her actions because in her mind, I'm the vile one.
00:21:00:10 - 00:21:29:01
Unknown
That's what she told me last time I talked to her. Anyway. Okay, back to it. Okay. Yes. And that is the story of the rooster killed and the dog run in Bastard Colorado. R.I.P.. Okay. No trauma there. No trauma there. There's no trauma. All right. So turned out to the story. So from there, Jeff, Mr. Jeff started a mormon splinter group and he began holding study groups in his home.
00:21:29:03 - 00:22:01:05
Unknown
So the current members that he had had included his friends from college, Dennis and TOYAH Patrick, so Dennis and TOYAH Patrick, Dennis and Cheryl Avery. Those are important names to remember. Dennis, Intro, Avery and John, Cheryl Denison, Cheryl and Jeff's cousin Debbie Olivares. She's not as important, No. Well, yes, sorry, Debbie, it's no Sue. So like many cult leaders, Jeff actually had a way with people where he could easily convince them to follow his word just in general.
00:22:01:05 - 00:22:29:19
Unknown
He, like, had that air about him. So people believed that he had uncovered what he said was the truth in Scripture in the Book of Mormon. So because of that, people started to worship the ground he walked on and eventually became a began donating money to support his family. They believed in him that much. I just don't get how somebody can just if somebody was also somebody give me money, I'd be like, no, you don't get money.
00:22:29:24 - 00:22:56:26
Unknown
It's just years of living in New York that have got to be like, you know, where New York jaded, which I would rather be. So anyway, Jeff eventually obviously got greedy and was quite unhappy with the small amounts of money that people were donating to him. So he announced that the Scriptures were now commanding him to move to a town called Kirtland, Ohio, where he Scriptures want you to move to Ohio.
00:22:56:28 - 00:23:26:09
Unknown
Imagine he's greeting them and literally says, okay, all right, Anywhere where he said that, he said that this is where he would receive his true power from God. so in Ohio, in Ohio, in Kirtland, Ohio, the motherland, Ohio. So in 1984, Jeff moved and arrived in Kirtland. So he was immediately attracted to immediately attracted to this place there.
00:23:26:11 - 00:23:43:19
Unknown
And you're right, he was immediately attracted to a place there called Chapman Forest and eventually told his followers that he had discovered where the Book of Mormon plates had been buried, which was there after they were brought over from the Holy Land. I was going to go into that and then I was like, I really don't want to know.
00:23:43:20 - 00:24:12:18
Unknown
So I didn't because I'm like plates for the book, whatever. Anyway. And of course they would be in Ohio. The Scripture said they would be. So anyway, both Jeff and Alice became Temple guides at the Mormon temple that was actually in Kirtland. And because they became like they were pretty quickly accepted because it's a small town that anyway, the the leaders of the temple ended up giving them a weekly salary, free room and board and a home behind the church.
00:24:12:21 - 00:24:33:13
Unknown
And that's when Jeff started using his tours to fold in his own views and beliefs of school. I'm sorry, his what he says to one of his tours. Yeah, because they tours. So basically tours tours to tour. As soon as you did say two words, words Tours is not the right way to say it. Tours. Tours. What do I say?
00:24:33:13 - 00:24:51:13
Unknown
Tours? You said tours is tours are long tours. Tours. Yeah. You know, when you say a word so many times that, like, sounds weird, both of them. It just But tours other folks is out right right up. There are some other words that I said that you're like, what? When? I don't know where they are right now, but they'll come.
00:24:51:13 - 00:25:18:10
Unknown
They will. Anyway, I'm all right, Tours. Okay. Well, they gave tours and he pushed his own agenda. Tours and they yeah, he, he would push his own agenda there. So anyway, after some time, Jeff started to steal money from the church so he would, he actually ended up stealing about $25,000 in donations and profit guys, which is quite a bit of money, which then I'm like, Wow, do churches really need that much money?
00:25:18:10 - 00:25:51:14
Unknown
Well, I mean, none of it's being taxed. No, they don't. But sure. Anyway, Jeff then began to once again teach from his home. So when he was doing his tours. Yeah, of course I quit once. He so when he was doing his tours and Q he actually at the same time began to teach from his own home. So people were incredibly attracted to him due to his knowledge of Scripture and started to believe that he was much more than a guide for the church, but rather something much bigger.
00:25:51:16 - 00:26:19:03
Unknown
I mean, of course. So Jeff would do his temple tours, then invite those people to his home, convincing them to move, join him and give him all their money. So people were convinced that he was a prophet like this is the time that people were starting to be convinced he was a prophet. So it's crazy because he basically moves to this town and becomes this tour guide in the temple and convinces all these people to fuck in the major towns and come.
00:26:19:05 - 00:26:38:24
Unknown
I just don't get the how you can convince somebody of that. I think it was because I mean it said it was because of the way that he would speak about scripture in general like that. I just it's just it would be great to hear like him speak on it, you know, to be like, how did he convince people to to do that?
00:26:38:27 - 00:27:01:16
Unknown
I don't know. Without any evidence. Like, I mean, at least Jesus was like walking on water. Sure. Yeah. What evidence of you turning Jeff? And he was going with water into wine. So anyways, you know, so yeah, because of his, like, the way that he did this, he convinced all these people to move there. So by 1986, Jeff's teachings had become a lot more extravagant and started to include acts of violence and sexual acts.
00:27:01:18 - 00:27:24:04
Unknown
And it actually didn't matter, though, to these people, of course, because by this time he had become the point of authority that people's own moral compass were out the window because they believed he was the superior being. So at this time, a lot of shit happened. So, he ended up getting I think he was already a fire man.
00:27:24:07 - 00:27:45:17
Unknown
Anyway, in his home environment, he actually would start to say shit to people. He claimed that there were two specific dates for the return of Christ, claiming that Jesus would return and destroy everyone except those deemed righteous, which is always doomed to those who don't follow. My religious, biological family say the same shit. I'm like, okay, you have the second coming of Christ.
00:27:45:17 - 00:28:15:16
Unknown
Sure. So anyway, both dates ended up passing. So just as they do that, he had a vision that the group had to seize the local temple on his birthday and included and created a hitlist for local, ah, LDS church officials and residents that would be executed if they got gotten his way. he called this the ultimate cleansing and said it would trigger the apocalypse.
00:28:15:19 - 00:28:49:07
Unknown
So by this time he was fired like he wasn't. That's called terrorism. Okay. Right. It totally is. So anyway, they built an arsenal. So all of these people, his followers built an arsenal and became a bit more militant. So they would like hold practice military things online. It's fucking weird. So anyway, they even state they even staged a couple, or so he okay, the cops actually cut on a little bit at some point about like stuff that was happening.
00:28:49:09 - 00:29:08:29
Unknown
So they kind of started to look out for them. And because of this, they questioned Jeff and nothing came about it or whatever. But because of the questioning, Jeff eventually staged a couple of people in an apartment across from the police station so they could monitor the police. Now, what does that sound like, Scientology? Well, yes, it does.
00:29:08:29 - 00:29:31:16
Unknown
Yeah. So also crazy. I mean, it's like in Clearwater, Florida, they're everywhere. They're they. Sure. So anyway, in the politics and everything. So by April 1987, the Avery family remember those two that I said at the beginning who were a part of his like following? At first they were the ones that originally joined up in Independence, Missouri, moved to Kirtland to join them.
00:29:31:18 - 00:29:52:06
Unknown
So what they didn't know when they moved there is that both Jeff and his and his wife Alice, really did not like them at all. And so shortly after their arrival, Alice actually went to Jeff and she was like, Why didn't you let them come here? And he simply replied to her and said, So I can get their money.
00:29:52:08 - 00:30:17:27
Unknown
So honest, caring. Right? Thank you for your transparency. Yes, I'm just here to steal from them. So. So what's interesting is that when they moved there, they sold their house and they ended up getting like $19,000. They gave Jeff $10,000 of that money because he simply said he would take care of their needs. And did he? I'm assuming he depends on what their needs were.
00:30:17:29 - 00:30:32:02
Unknown
But anyway, how crazy is that, though? It's insane. I would never like I would never do that. There's no one in my life that could convince me, even if there was like a okay, let's say that a casting director came to me and they were like, If you give me $10,000, I'll put you in this movie. I would say, No, thank you.
00:30:32:07 - 00:31:00:29
Unknown
Yeah, I'll give you my money. No, that's the only way that I can relate it, because maybe I would question it. But no. Anyway, so not enough to do it. None of us do it. No, thank you. So anyway, by September of 1987, church officials at that temple had fired him, obviously, and stripped him of his ministerial credentials due to the extent of his unorthodox teachings, which led to him immediately withdrawing his membership, which they said that they would have forced his membership out anyway because of everything that he'd done.
00:31:01:01 - 00:31:23:25
Unknown
So because of this, it forced him to leave the housing that he had for free. So this was actually when he had gotten fired and all that. So, Jeff, when the Avery's came, there was a realtor that was local that he knew that were showing them like a landlord that was showing them some properties. There was this farmhouse that Jeff was like looked at with a breeze but never addressed.
00:31:23:25 - 00:31:47:15
Unknown
And the Hebrews went to somewhere else, but he kept this farmhouse in his mind. So when he got forcibly removed from the church, when they couldn't live there for free anymore, he contacted that realtor and was like that farmhouse that's available. And the guy said, Yeah. So they moved to this farmhouse. So he moves his family, some followers and more to this farmhouse in Kirtland.
00:31:47:17 - 00:32:16:07
Unknown
It's like, right outside of it. So throughout the rest of the year, Jeff and his son grew their arsenal and began training men for combat. And when hold them would hold scenarios and more on this farmhouse or this farmhouse, it's really fucking weird. So by February 1988, Kevin Curry was actually one of the members of the cult left at one point because he didn't like how the teachings were going.
00:32:16:07 - 00:32:40:22
Unknown
But then he ended up coming back. So he then left again because of his teachings, this time when he left, and because he feared Jeff, he decided to contact the FBI, who then turned it over to the Kirtland police. Dennis The guy's name was Dennis Yarborough. So the police chief, Dennis, thought that it was serious enough and started investigating Jeff and his followers.
00:32:40:24 - 00:33:03:19
Unknown
And then another member, Shah, ended up leaving as well, which angered him a lot. So by 1989, Jeff began promising his followers that he would take them to see God. To make the journey. However, the court had to seize the Kirtland Temple and kill anyone who tried to stop them. So he brought that up again. So with it not happening, it did not happen.
00:33:03:19 - 00:33:26:29
Unknown
So then he switched his mind a little bit and said that he had a vision and that the vision, it's always a vision, is who he was telling to most of his followers, minus some. But he said that he had a vision and that the vision told him that it was that he had to sacrifice the Avery family and that would be enough to for the group to reach their goal.
00:33:27:01 - 00:34:03:08
Unknown
So apparently Jeff felt that Sheryl Avery was headstrong and that her children were unruly. And at the same time, Dennis also also began to question Jeffs teachings during class, like outwardly would question him. And so since no one ever questioned Jeff naturally as a cult leader, yeah, sounds like Trump. People in the group couldn't understand why Dennis would ever question Jeff and that they started to see him questioning Jeff as potential lethal ramifications.
00:34:03:08 - 00:34:29:22
Unknown
I mean, of course. Yeah, because that's what they would believe. Yeah. Like you can't question them. No, of course not. So and of course that person would now need to die. Yeah. So he slowly got the group to think that what Dennis was doing was extremely sinful. So the murders. So April 10th of 1989 is when Jeff finally decided to put his plan to sacrifice the Avery's into action, and he ordered two followers.
00:34:29:22 - 00:34:54:00
Unknown
This brings us back to the beginning, Keith and Ron, to begin digging a pit in the barn, which would be used to conceal the family's bodies. It took them four days to in the barn where they all live. No, there was a barn. A barn on the property of where they. Yeah. Yeah. So at the same time, Jeff decided he would relocate all of his followers and would abandon the farm after murders.
00:34:54:02 - 00:35:25:05
Unknown
He ordered all of the women to start packing all of their belongings. He then went and told the Avery's that the entire group would be going on a wilderness retreat and told them to prepare to leave Kirtland. So they started packing bullshit and just to think that they were going to go alone, you know? So on April 17th of 1989, Jeff and his entire group moved all the Avery's belongings to the farm and rented them a room at a nearby motel with the idea that the next day they would be going and leaving for this wilderness retreat.
00:35:25:12 - 00:35:51:29
Unknown
So that evening, the group, which was quite a few people in general, including the Avery, sat down for dinner at 630 at night. Following dinner, Jeff went into his bedroom, calling all the men minus Dennis into the bedroom while in the bedroom. Jeff Then showed them all a 45 Colt combat elite gun and asked the men one by one whether they were with him or not.
00:35:52:01 - 00:36:11:09
Unknown
Each said yes, of course, had no questions and followed Jeff out to the barn. In the barn is where Jeff laid out the plan. So what they would do, and this gets pretty rough, what they would do is they would bring this is what he was telling everybody. We're going to bring out every member of the Avery family out into the barn when they get out here.
00:36:11:09 - 00:36:32:29
Unknown
We're going to bind them with tape. We'll cover their eyes, will place them into the pit where we will execute them. And no one said anything. And they were just like, okay, yeah, okay, let's do that. That doesn't sound like a sin at all. So no one questions anything. There were no questions. And apparently after he spoke, Jeff just looked at this guy run left and said, let's do it.
00:36:33:01 - 00:36:59:25
Unknown
So, no, this was hard to write down. But anyway, so Ron left the barn and went back to the house where he asked Dennis first to come out to the barn to give him a hand preparing equipment for the trip. Dennis agreed and followed. So as they're walking to their, a voice says, Here they come because there was everyone had a roll and that's the look out said, Here they come.
00:36:59:28 - 00:37:20:23
Unknown
So when didn't when Dennis entered the barn, Ron hit him with a stun gun. But it was such a low voltage that Dennis just cried out in pain. But the men were all on him in a moment and they bound him with duct tape. They lifted him and dragged him to the pit where Jeff was literally sitting at the top and a pile of dirt with a gun in his hand.
00:37:21:01 - 00:37:45:00
Unknown
my gosh, how terrifying is that? You know, So they ended up lowering Dennis into the pit and backed away. So a guy named Gregor or. Sorry, Gray. I thought it was Greg. That's Greg. I put Gray. So, okay. Name Greg Winship, who was standing outside of the barn, was given a signal to start a chainsaw in order to muffle the sound of a gun blast.
00:37:45:03 - 00:38:13:12
Unknown
The chainsaw started and Jeff shot Dennis in the back with two shots as he attempted to get on his knees and the pair us. So this was very premeditated. Highly. This is like, just way so Ron then left the barn, returning to the house for Cheryl, the wife. So she agreed and followed. When she entered the barn, they attempted to stun gun again, but it failed and she simply just gave in and let them in on her with tape.
00:38:13:12 - 00:38:31:13
Unknown
And it said that somebody just whispered in the ear, just don't fight it. So she did it. Well, I mean, at that point, it's like, how do you get out of something like that? Yeah, I'm sure that she probably could see that her husband and I'm assuming in the pit, I'm not sure. But they said that they dragged her to the pit and lowered her next to the body of her husband.
00:38:31:15 - 00:39:03:07
Unknown
The chainsaw started. Jeff shouted three shots. The first two shots struck Cheryl in the right breast, and while she fell, the third hit her abdomen, the gas and then run. After that was done, then returned for the kids. So. And this I don't love, Dennis and Charlotte, three daughters. So the daughters were 15, 13 and seven. So why couldn't you just let them go?
00:39:04:03 - 00:39:23:23
Unknown
so when Ron came back into the house, nobody could hear anything because of the chainsaw. So he returned to the house and there were all the girls were in the living room playing video games and discussing the exciting trip that they were about to take the next day. So he, he he walked in and got Trina, who was there, a 15 year old daughter, asking her to come out to the barn with him.
00:39:23:23 - 00:39:48:00
Unknown
She entered the barn and stood completely still like her mom as the men bound her. Richard and Ron then picked her up and lowered her into the pit. Jeff then shot her as she was leaning her head against the dirt. The bullet grazed her head and she screamed in pain and fear. The next bullet then entered her skull on the left side and just below her right ear, killing her instantly.
00:39:48:03 - 00:40:08:07
Unknown
Then Ron, then. So now we're at three. So then Ron returned back to the house again and asked Becky and Karen, which were the other two daughters, if they wanted to go out to the barn and see the horses. Both girls jumped up, really excited, ran to the door to get out to the barn and Ron said, of course only one could go.
00:40:08:07 - 00:40:37:05
Unknown
So he said, Karen, sit back at the TV bucket. You can go with me. Karen was a seven year old Becky, who was 13, walked up to the barn with Ron and they started to bound her. But as they did that, the men pretended to be playing a game, so they found her up. The game was over. They placed her on top of her mom's body in the pit, which had already become soaked with blood.
00:40:37:07 - 00:41:00:10
Unknown
So imagine that. So Greg outside started the chainsaw. Jeff fired two shots. The first bullet struck Becky in the left thigh, and the second had her in the chest. She did not die right away and they did not make sure she was dead. So, Greg, I guess, who was one operating the chainsaw outside, ended up coming into the barn right after that to just see whatever other bodies.
00:41:00:10 - 00:41:18:14
Unknown
And he saw that Becky was actually still alive, making gasping and gurgling noises, but they all just left her to suffer in pain. What the fuck? Yeah. So as if this isn't already hard enough, it's horrible. So then Ron returns back to the house for the last girl. So as before, they walk her out to the barn. Where?
00:41:18:14 - 00:41:39:06
Unknown
Look out says Here they come. And then Ron had actually put Karen on his shoulders. So he's like walking up to the bar, like, playfully, like, Yeah, so fucked up. So once in the barn they bound Karen, who was seven and placed her in the pit next to her sister. Becky, by the way, was still alive. The chainsaw started and Jeff fired two shots.
00:41:39:06 - 00:41:58:00
Unknown
One hit Karen in the chest and the other hit her in the head. She died instantly, too. So after that, Jeff instructed Ron and Richard to spread the lime over the bodies and cover them with dirt. It took them 2 hours to do that after that. So Alice, remember, Jeff's wife, had left the home with all the other kids at this time.
00:41:58:02 - 00:42:20:04
Unknown
She calls to see, Is the company gone? Is what she said when she called in once Alice returned home. Jeff Damon So Jeff, his son Damon, and his wife Alice, drove to the motel where the Avery's were staying and removed all their belongings. And so on April 18th, which was the next day, Jeff divided his followers into small groups who then left at different times throughout the night.
00:42:20:04 - 00:42:42:17
Unknown
So they didn't raise any suspicion. So they all jetted. They were gone. So from April to October, the cult moved to a campsite where the men were ordered to give their wives over to Jeff for cleansing so he could cleanse them with his seed. yeah. So he would brag about, so in general, he would brag about the murders and every.
00:42:42:18 - 00:43:01:20
Unknown
I mean, of course we wouldn't be here. Yeah. And the thing that he loved the most was that everyone feared him because of the murders. Because I mean, that he would just kill you. But also, you all fell in line with any one of you. Could have stopped that any moment in time. But you didn't. Exactly. So the camp started to fall apart, obviously, as people started questioning Jeff's teachings and his status as a prophet.
00:43:01:23 - 00:43:18:28
Unknown
So by the 13th of October, Jeff decided to abandon the camp and traveled to Missouri, where they stayed in a barn. After a week, Jeff decided the group should break up and come together the next summer. And so at that time, each man was instructed to go get a job, provide for his family, and save money to give to Jeff.
00:43:18:28 - 00:43:49:01
Unknown
When they returned. So he was running out of money. So he was like, okay, new plan. Yeah. So just give it to me. Know Richard and Greg, two of them that were involved in the murders at that time decided to leave the group. They and so them actually leaving the group gave others up to leave as well. So by mid-December, Jeff was starting to worry that people that had left would talk about the murders and then decided that he jetted in, went to Southern California with his family.
00:43:49:02 - 00:44:11:18
Unknown
I'm sorry if you were going to be too worried, maybe don't fucking do it, you know. So also, like, that's crazy to fully go through a mass killing and then be like, I'm going to I think I'm going to leave this cult. Now I know, like, I don't I wouldn't count your own life as secure. No, no, because now you have information, the 100%.
00:44:11:20 - 00:44:27:26
Unknown
So anyway, when Jeff and his family got to Southern California, they rented a storage locker, stored all our guns and supplies and all that shit. So by New Year's Eve, Keith Johnson, also a part of it, could no longer live with his guilt and ended up contacting an informant friend who arranged a meeting with the Kansas City agents.
00:44:27:28 - 00:44:49:06
Unknown
That's where he was. So during this meeting, Keith spilled literally everything. He drew a map to the bodies, all of it. The investigators in Kansas City didn't really believe him, but they faxed over everything, including the map to FBI in Cleveland, Ohio. They also didn't really believe him. And so, no, I feel like that's something that's. Yeah, seems a wild story.
00:44:49:07 - 00:45:03:24
Unknown
Exactly. So the FBI were like and instead contacted this Kansas City agency and they were like, here's the Kirtland Police Department. I would maybe talk to them. So on.
00:45:03:26 - 00:45:23:23
Unknown
So basically they did. Chief Yarborough, who was the one that was like, these guys are a little bit out of investigate them, but nothing came about it, received it, and he was like, okay, So he then assigned a deputy, Ron Ole and all sick to check on the whereabouts of the Avery. Obviously they were unable to locate that family.
00:45:23:25 - 00:45:51:16
Unknown
So then they contacted the owner of the farmhouse and said, Can we please search this property? Because they knew that they had last been there and had picked up and left. So on January 3rd of 1990, both Yarborough and Solecki or Anderson did not say that right the first time. Took the map made by Keith Johnson and located an area in the northeast corner of the barn that appeared to have been disturbed because when they were leaving, Jeff also said cover it with trash bags.
00:45:51:19 - 00:46:15:19
Unknown
So they like dirt trash bags. So when they got that, they were like, we probably need to maybe dig here. So they started digging. And after just a few inches into the plot, the men were overcome with a pungent smell. And then shortly after 9 p.m. and 30 inches below the surface, they discovered the first body because basically they just threw them all on top of each other and then just covered them.
00:46:15:22 - 00:46:35:29
Unknown
Okay, so arrest and trial as the news of the discovery hit the the news, a members of the court began coming forward one by one to tell their version of the events, hoping to receive leniency. Obviously, which I find to be interesting, because then you motherfuckers knew it was wrong. Exactly. And so they shouldn't be get any kind of leniency.
00:46:35:29 - 00:47:04:16
Unknown
There's nothing. Nothing. You all should be put in jail, you know? I mean, honestly, you also be bound, gagged and shot. You should be in buried, you know, done the same way that. Yeah. So Lake County prosecutor Steven LaTourette wasted no time in obtaining search warrants for Jeff Alice. Damien run left. Susan Luff, Richard Brand, Greg Winship, Danny Craft, Debra Oliveira's, Sharon bluntly, Dennis Patrick Tunney, Patrick and Catherine Johnson.
00:47:04:19 - 00:47:30:25
Unknown
Those are all the people present. So almost all minus Jeff, Alice, Damon, Danny Kraft and Kathy Johnson were arrested pretty quickly. So by January 5th, Jeff was in south Southern California, contacted his mother in law, Alice's mom Dana Keeler, and asked her to drive to him to pick up her grandchildren. And so Donna contacted the police, obviously, and relayed the information to ATF agencies.
00:47:31:02 - 00:47:57:12
Unknown
So Jeff, Alice and Damon were all arrested at a motel just outside the Mexico border because they were planning to run. So on January 10th, a San Diego patrol Unit two spotted Danny and Kathy traveling west on Route 78, and they were also arrested. So March 7th 1990, Richard Brand pleaded guilty to five counts of murder in exchange for leniency on the premise that he would cooperate with the state.
00:47:57:14 - 00:48:26:14
Unknown
April to May of 1990. Greg Winship, Sharon Blunt, Shelley, Susan Leff and Debbie Oliveira's all accepted plea bargains offered by the prosecution. Greg Greg, who was the chainsaw guy I think pleaded guilty to five counts of murder while Sharon, Susie and Debbie pleaded guilty to five counts, each of conspiracy to commit aggravated murder because they all knew it was happening and were holding the girls inside.
00:48:26:16 - 00:48:52:01
Unknown
So July 1990, Alice, Jeff's wife, was found guilty on all counts, which included kidnaping and complicity to commit aggravated murder. She was given multiple sentences to be served consecutively and would be eligible for parole after 100 years. On August 29th, 1990, Jeff was guilty on all counts and showed literally no emotion when verdicts were read. Of course, it only took him.
00:48:52:08 - 00:49:13:08
Unknown
It only took 2 hours for the jury to find him guilty. On September 21st, 1990, he was sentenced to death. Good. So Damon, his son, was found guilty of kidnaping and aggravated murder in the death of Dennis, Becky, Trina and Karen. There was actually acquitted in the death of Cheryl, the mom. They, I guess, determined that he wasn't in the barn at that time or something.
00:49:13:09 - 00:49:37:24
Unknown
I don't know. So on September 26th, 1990, because he didn't know that one was happening. Yes, he did. 1990, Damien was sentenced to two years to life for each count of aggravated murder, which all five or sorry, all four. And then in October, Dennis and TOYAH or Dennis and Tanya Patrick pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice and were placed on probation for 18 months.
00:49:37:26 - 00:50:03:20
Unknown
And then November 5th, Dan Craft pleaded guilty to five counts of aggravated murder and five counts of kidnaping. Ron Luff was also found guilty on of, of, on all five counts, and Kathy Johnson, Richard Brand, Greg Winship, Sharon Blonsky, Susan Leff and Debbie Olivares were all sentenced in January of 1990, which is interesting. And so cut to October 24th, 2006.
00:50:03:23 - 00:50:35:10
Unknown
After several appeals Jeff was executed. So you can't ask him any questions. He's gone. I mean, I. All right, my friends. And that was the story of the cult killing to forget what you said. I said, dear, dear Jeffrey, you were no prophet, you Dick. No, you were. No. Okay, So. All right, friends, that was the story of the Kirtland cult, which was run by Jeffrey Dunn.
00:50:35:10 - 00:50:58:06
Unknown
Lundgren Yeah. And again, Dear Jeffrey, you were not a prophet. Your dick. Yeah, that was a good one. So yeah, I one. So, Brandon, my turn. All right, so mine is on the Alexander family. yeah. So I have it labeled as a cult ish murder because this is. they were in a cult, but they did not.
00:50:58:08 - 00:51:21:14
Unknown
They killed because of the cult. But it wasn't like it wasn't in the sense of what yours was in the sense that it was people killing. I feel like there could be a movie. Cultish. Cultish. Yeah, it's a book, I think. Is it really. Yeah. good to know. Right. and to come in with the fact I read.
00:51:21:16 - 00:51:47:21
Unknown
We now know, Right? Okay, cool. So have you ever heard of the Law Society or in German it's the Lorber ghoulish left however you see that if I haven't heard it in English I certainly. really? Well, can you say it again. What's it called? I don't even know how to say it, but it's the law versus I.D..
00:51:47:21 - 00:52:14:07
Unknown
But it's Lorber, GSC, pll sc, Justin's slash c s, c h hft. I know the last part of it is Shaft. Yes, yes. Cell slash, whatever. Well, just a slight slide to go into a little bit of background. So Jacob Lorber was born in the year 1800. Exactly. In a small village in Sylvania. So growing up he was a seemingly normal man.
00:52:14:07 - 00:52:46:26
Unknown
I didn't see too much before the cult started, but he was a well-educated man, trained as a village teacher and was also a talented violinist and was deeply religious, which I mean, there we go. Yep, there it is. So by the time of 1840, Lorber was 40 years old and something weird started to happen to him. He started to hear a voice in his head that he said felt like he came from deep within himself, somewhere near the vicinity of his heart.
00:52:46:28 - 00:53:14:26
Unknown
So he was possessed. Yeah. So this voice is what made people categorize him as a Christian mystic. Now, you may be wondering, what is that? Yeah. So? Well, according to Britannica, because they came with facts, Christian mysticism is the sense of some form of contact with the divine or transcendent, often understood in Christian tradition as involving a union with God.
00:53:15:01 - 00:53:40:03
Unknown
Yeah, right. So that's right. My friend Lauber had a voice of Jesus speaking through him. Apparently, the voice apparently the voice spoke, and let him know that it was in fact Jesus and that Lauber believed every word of it. In the beginning, Lauber was a little confused, but as time went on, the Voice started talking so much that he decided he had to write it down.
00:53:40:05 - 00:54:15:25
Unknown
So for the next 24 years, Lauber wrote down every word that he heard from Internal Jesus, Internal Jesus. And like, it's funny because Kevin and I joke around and call Jesus Jesus. So I'm having a really hard time not calling him just from now on, calling you. This is so according to Jacob. Robert Yes, I will. Okay. So but in the way that words kept going as was so according to Jacob Daniel Warburton, that he wrote 25 volumes and in total about 10,000 pages.
00:54:15:29 - 00:54:39:14
Unknown
Look at him coming in with that dot net. Right. There's actually quite a few websites about him because, because people still follow the idea or the ideas that he had. Wow. So overall, the writings were all rooted in Christian ideals as they are as he was raised. A Roman Catholic, however, they were a bit more extreme and harped on a lot of extreme self-denial to gain God's favor.
00:54:39:16 - 00:55:20:17
Unknown
Now, I don't really understand what that means. I thought that was in a lot of different sources. Failure did you mean to gain favor? Favor? Favor. I just wanted to double check. Yeah. So anyways, I didn't know it, but I saw that in a lot of different sources that it was extreme self-denial, which. Okay, so I also saw that some sources called them liberal Christian Universalists, that they had a lot of Christian values but believed in things like the pre existence and reincarnation of one soul, which is very much not Christian though the traditional Christian values, but by 1864, Lauber ended up dying, and although he had received some attention for his writings, it was
00:55:20:17 - 00:55:44:17
Unknown
pretty minuscule until he passed away. And the extent of his writings were found in eventually published like years later. So from here, around 1921, a following started to grow in The cult was in a cult was formed in Germany looking for a name for the organization. They apparently didn't feel like getting too creative, and they started with the name The New Salem's Ghoulish left.
00:55:44:18 - 00:56:13:12
Unknown
However you say that. Which new Salem It New Salem Verlag. I think it's the VR elegy. I'm just going to start to spell it. They were the publishing house that published the book, so they got real creative and they were like, these people published it. I'm just going to call it going to in the Grave. Yeah, Well, by 1937, a lot was happening in the world, and especially in Germany, with the exponential growth of the Nazi Party.
00:56:13:14 - 00:56:32:07
Unknown
So this dude is all because he was born 1800. Yeah, he was spent long up. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like it was years later that they found his writing, his writings. And so being a time when all other religious views were seen as wrong, the party, the Nazi party saw this group and were like, Yeah, no, you're a cult.
00:56:32:10 - 00:56:59:13
Unknown
And yeah, why know they're coming for you. Exactly. Exactly. So they ended up being were prohibited from further practice. So after World War Two, they got back together and they reformed under the name the Lorber SAS. So the Nazis, they this group of religious folks were not included in the mass genocide of know. From what I saw, it didn't say anything about that.
00:56:59:13 - 00:57:26:10
Unknown
They were just they were basically prohibited because they were essentially they were Germans living in Germany. great. So they weren't Jewish, so never. Or gay or any other thing. Yeah. Or anything. But that's fucking Nazis. All right. So throughout their years, the writings were built upon from those who who led the organization because they all said that they also were they also heard the words of Jesus.
00:57:26:13 - 00:57:53:02
Unknown
So by this time, the leader of the cult was a George Re so racial. I don't know his name was George r e r II rightly so. So George was the leader in the organization developed to believe that all who were outside of the group were evil and impure. So while George was the leader, he met a man named Harold Alexander.
00:57:53:05 - 00:58:20:02
Unknown
Harold was married to a woman named Dagmar, and from my research I saw that the fucking name I know it's Dag. My name is Dagmar. Yeah. And actually, so all the sources that I saw have his name as Harold. But I did see other people spelling and pronouncing a different. So I think just my research kind of like Americanized some of it, but I don't it well there was Harold was married to Dagmar.
00:58:20:21 - 00:58:39:25
Unknown
yes yes. So from my research I saw that these two met early. They met either very shortly after his release from a 15 year stay at a psychiatric facility or during his stay. I couldn't find one that told me either way, but either way he was in the psychiatric facility and they met and they apparently fell in love.
00:58:39:25 - 00:59:01:21
Unknown
Got married. Yes, one one does, as one does in a psychiatric unit. Yeah. Yeah. So when Harold met George, Harold got really excited as he heard all about the society. I read in one source that Harold also at one point said that he heard God talking to him as well. Yeah. So he was obviously super invested from the beginning.
00:59:01:23 - 00:59:20:28
Unknown
Harold went home and told Dogma all about the society and that what they stood for and that they were joining in. From what I saw, Dagmar was very was a very obedient woman. She did whatever he wanted and it feels if it was a really toxic masculinity kind of relationship, that she just fell in place. She just did as he wanted.
00:59:21:11 - 00:59:51:26
Unknown
Dagmar. Yeah. So they joined in. They threw themselves into it. They isolated themselves from people in their lives and they sequestered themselves to only the society. I'm sorry. Sequestered? Yeah, sequestered. Sequestered. Sequestered. Yeah. Yeah, whatever. I even even underline read because I spelt it wrong. So like, sir I did sequestered it. It's under like this. Why, You shouldn't use big words before it's everybody.
00:59:51:26 - 01:00:05:00
Unknown
Or is that you really. Yeah. Yes. Well, because I didn't realize what you were saying anyways. They sequestered themselves.
01:00:05:02 - 01:00:35:28
Unknown
I hate to use it. Okay Brendan. That one. That one was. That was good. You're good. You're good. Anyway, I forgive you. We've got to always say sequestered. Shut the fuck up. Anyways, so basically they kept away from everyone. and instantly George and Harold became really close. So everybody else in their life, they just saw as evil.
01:00:35:28 - 01:00:56:21
Unknown
So they just really stuck to only the people in the group. So soon after they joined, George ended up getting really sick and it progressed really quickly and he eventually died like very soon after that. Harold And they supported themselves. I mean, I didn't see what happened. I couldn't see anywhere. I okay, I'm trying to get over it.
01:00:56:21 - 01:01:15:19
Unknown
I can't. Okay. I'm sorry. So I didn't see what happened to him. But whatever it was, it happened really quick. So once George died, Harold started to tell everyone that before his death, George called for him. When Harold got there, George knew that he was dying and that he wanted him to take over as the leader of the Lorber Society.
01:01:15:22 - 01:01:40:09
Unknown
Is it Lorber or Lorber or Lorber, Lorber, Lorber versus. I know it's Lorber. I had you're looking at my notes. It's been around there. It's Lorber Lorber from what we just decided, you said, Well, look at the look at my own spelling. I'm not sick. Look altered. Fuck. Anyways, Harold was obviously super excited to take over and for some reason everybody just went with it.
01:01:40:09 - 01:02:03:28
Unknown
They were like, Okay, cool, let's do it. So it to me, this feels really fucking weird because they had just joined the organization and nobody seems to care. So everything I read for a short period of time, everything stayed the same. Nothing was different until one day when Harold told them that he heard from God and that God said there would be a prophet.
01:02:04:00 - 01:02:25:00
Unknown
Because, you know, there's always prophets have gotten feels like God's been saying that a lot, right? and he said that it would be the next prophet of God. And Harold told everyone that, that as soon as he saw the person, he would immediately know that that was the prophet. So they didn't know who it was yet, but as soon as Harold saw them and said, Yes, that is who it is, that that's who it was.
01:02:25:04 - 01:02:46:19
Unknown
So in hindsight, this was him starting to groom. The people of the group were more than more than they already were. He started to tell them that when the prophet comes, that everyone, including himself, will have to do whatever the prophet says It doesn't matter how strange or other requests were that they had to do it. And he told them that.
01:02:46:24 - 01:03:14:22
Unknown
They told them, but they told them that he had they had to do what? my gosh. I should literally just read the words. I'm trying to change it. They had to do it. And he told them this over and over, repeatedly told them until they believed it, and eventually they did Jesus. So after a couple of years, Harold and Dagmar had a baby girl named Marina, and they had their second child on the way, a baby boy named Frank.
01:03:14:25 - 01:03:40:00
Unknown
So instantly Harold laces eyes on Frank, and immediately he, of course, my own child as the prophet. Yep. So excited. He told everyone that the prophet had arrived and it was frank. And from here on out, they had to listen to everything Frank said with the obvious twist that Harold had a bit of his own say in it because Harold was a baby and agreed.
01:03:40:02 - 01:04:03:08
Unknown
No question. They were like, Yes, Frank. Frank was the baby. Yes, because the next prophet will be Frank had to listen to everything that Frank, the infant. Yes, said yes. So yeah. So for the next for the next few years, this kid, Frank, grew up to be cater to anything he wanted. He got anything he said eventually said people did.
01:04:03:10 - 01:04:25:20
Unknown
Even his family played into it, his mother, his sister, and even his father. All did what He said it whenever they were with people from the South, the society, they all did the same thing, no question asked. So so obviously Frank started to grow up to be a really cool, cool, cool and humble human just like myself in how I speak.
01:04:25:20 - 01:04:56:21
Unknown
So humble is a cool, cool. It was cool as a cucumber. So yeah, so Frank was a disaster. He was an awful person. But by the time Frank hit his ten year teenage years, puberty started to hit as Okay, okay. I feel like I skipped something. At some point I did. I totally skipped through this whole section. So I'm going to jump back just a little bit.
01:04:56:21 - 01:05:16:25
Unknown
When I say when I have a note here that says, When Frank was about two years old, Harold Dogma had two more children. Petra Intervene, who are twins, which is a pretty important. Why is Petra sound like a name was that the name of the on Jane the Virgin? Yes, I was. There is a Petra. Yeah. Okay. okay.
01:05:16:25 - 01:05:42:21
Unknown
So they had two more kids, and then for the next few years, we'll go into that part where he, Frank, was catered to. Even his sisters. All of a sisters. So his older sister, his younger sisters, they all just. They all followed him. so by the time Frank hit his teenage years, his. He started hit puberty, jumping back to where he was in with puberty comes obvious hormones.
01:05:43:13 - 01:06:06:03
Unknown
so he obviously started getting interested in girls wherever. However, there was a caveat growing up. All he knew that was, was that he was the prophet and that people outside of the group was evil and impure because he grew up with the idea that he was going to be that he was the prophet in that in that everybody outside of their culture was evil.
01:06:06:03 - 01:06:30:26
Unknown
So what makes this this next a little bit fun is that the society was not very large and there weren't many people in in their society for Frank to be interested in in Frank was really adamant about keeping his purity because he was scared about being unpopular. So Frank went to talk to his father. He told him about his issues and told him that he had the best solution for it.
01:06:30:28 - 01:06:57:16
Unknown
Frank then goes to tell his father that he will keep his purity by sleeping with his mother and sisters Whenever he wanted to. no, sir. It was Harold like, no. So Harold heard this and immediately agreed 100%. No question. Wait, sorry. Who told him that? His father told Harold Is his father. Harold is his father? Yeah, Harold.
01:06:57:18 - 01:07:14:18
Unknown
So, Harold, when he went to go talk to Harold, and Harold immediately agreed. So his father, Frank, went to his dad and was like, I want to stay pure. So I'm going to now. So it was Frank's idea. He was with his mother and like they were already groomed. Harold, in the sense, groomed himself to always think that whatever Frank wanted, Frank got.
01:07:14:18 - 01:07:42:11
Unknown
So he was like, Yes. And so he agreed that it's too big of a risk of contaminating the prophet of God, and he took it seriously. He also eventually added that he would also be able to partake in the festivities occasionally. my God. Incest stuff. Yeah. So brainwashed by the cult mentality. They conformed without question in the sexual assaults began to begin immediately.
01:07:42:11 - 01:08:13:26
Unknown
And when I say they conformed to the family, conformed, it would become a common practice in the Alexander household so much that one of the twins went to school in was talking to a classmate and told them how their brother wasn't paying enough attention to her, that all that he has all been that he has been doing with all his my Lord, why can't I just follow my words so too that all he's been doing is paying attention to everybody else in that she had the tone of disappointment like she wanted the attention.
01:08:13:28 - 01:08:40:23
Unknown
So the classmate obviously got freaked out and kids being kids, the word started to get out that what was happening and other students talked to other students and eventually talked to parents in parents who immediately got freaked out and they called the police. Eventually, the society the society started to hear about what was being said and completely, completely confused by what they heard, because none of them heard any of this previously.
01:08:40:25 - 01:09:08:00
Unknown
And so Frank or Harold got a little bit concerned because people were starting to back away from from the society in the family, and none of them consented to the incest. So Frank or Harold started to panic. So he called a meeting of the society and said that he'd be stepping down from his position position. He reiterated that Frank was still the prophet, but they were being called by God to leave.
01:09:08:02 - 01:09:33:13
Unknown
So they packed their bags and moved to Spain, specifically Santa Cruz, which is one of the in part of one of the Canary Islands. And so in Santa Cruz, just like in in Germany, these secluded were sequestered. That's probably what I meant to say. Secluded. well, we said sequestered, so. Right. Yeah, It was a secluded mix. I like mixed the two secluded themselves from everyone around them.
01:09:33:13 - 01:10:02:05
Unknown
However, unlike in Germany, they only had themselves. No one else was a part of their society. So it was just their family continuing to practice, calling Frank the prophet disgusting. Yeah. So December six, ten, 1970, the family was hanging out at the house and Harold and Dagmar were laying in bed about to take a nap. When Frank walked in, he sat at the edge of the bed and he said his mother was staring at him.
01:10:02:08 - 01:10:28:04
Unknown
Frank said her eyes looked suggestive and evil, as if she was looking at him defiantly. It's also quoted that he's that he said she had a demonic look, cold as ice in the sarcastic smile on her lips. Frank immediately freaked out, thinking how inappropriate of her to be looking at him that way. And then he declared it was killing hour.
01:10:28:06 - 01:10:52:16
Unknown
So when the family moved to the island, their religious ideals shifted a bit. One update that I'm not that I'm not sure if it came before their move or after their move that Harold and Frank started to believe that all women were inherently evil. That, yeah, that the only way they were to be saved was to be sacrificed.
01:10:52:22 - 01:11:15:25
Unknown
So they declared of that at any point that if Frank declared it to be killing hour, that he would he would then kill all of the women in the household to save them. Okay? Incels Yeah. And because of all of the grooming, everyone in the family complied and agreed to it. Okay, So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can kill me now.
01:11:15:29 - 01:11:39:09
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. If you want to kill me, just give me one. Everyone makes ten. So when Frank said it was killing hour, his mother basically laid back and waited. So. Yeah, yeah, this is. This is where it gets to be. Really just real fun. So Frank started slapping his mother and calling for his father to grab a woman would and hanger from the closet, and he started to beat the shit out of her.
01:11:39:11 - 01:12:09:10
Unknown
One source I even saw said that after the first blow with the hanger dog, more rolled to make it easier for him to kill her. Right? So Frank continued, as Harold sat next to Dagmar in the bed, jumping up with excitement, Harold ended up running over to, I believe, the living room where they had their organ, their musical organ, and he started playing music to go along with the murder on an organ.
01:12:09:16 - 01:12:31:02
Unknown
Cuckoo. Cool. Yeah. Sounds like a terrifying horror movie. So with sounds coming from the other side of the house, Marina and Petra came out of their room to see the commotion. When they stepped out and saw their father playing the organ, he let them know. That the killing hour had begun understanding what was next. Both sisters sat down in the living room and waited for their turn.
01:12:31:05 - 01:12:55:07
Unknown
By the time Frank moved on from his mother, it is unclear if she was dead or if she was just unconscious. But at this point, Frank didn't care and he moved on his way over to his sisters, who, just like their mother, complied until they beat them into the same point as their mother. at this point, Frank decided that he needs to finish the sacrifice.
01:12:55:13 - 01:13:21:21
Unknown
He got Harold to grab a hammer, a razor in pruning shears. Frank then proceeded to cut each. This gets a little bit rough, but Frank then proceeded to cut off each of their nipples, their breasts and genitalia, grabbed the hammer, nails and a fix them to the walls of the home. my Lord. Yeah. He then dismembered them and removed his mother's heart, wrapped it in string and hung it from the wall.
01:13:21:23 - 01:13:45:13
Unknown
And one source even said that at one point Frank got tired. He ended up telling Harold that they needed to switch because Harold was playing the organ throughout, this whole thing, and that he needed a break from cutting up the bodies. So Harold, they switched. Harold goes and cuts up in. Frank starts to play the organ. The next day they got up and they decided to go talk to Sabine to let her know what happens.
01:13:45:13 - 01:14:13:04
Unknown
Now, At this point in my research, I was like, Who was Sabio? Who was the. Yeah, so and I have it in here now, you may be thinking, Wait, who's Sabine again? So Sabine was the other twin because there was three sisters. Who's Tetra in Marina? Marina was the oldest. Petra was the twin of Sabine. So there was the friend.
01:14:13:06 - 01:14:38:20
Unknown
Frank was the oldest. Frank? No, it was. It was Marina, Frank and Sabine and Petra. So the night previously, Sabine was not at the apartment for the killing hour. That night. She spent the night working as a housekeeper at the home of Dr. Tinkler's. So she never went home to Tinkler's? Yeah. So Harold and Frank knocked on the door at Dr. Frank in Dr. Tinkler answered.
01:14:38:22 - 01:15:02:13
Unknown
When he did, he saw these two gentlemen standing in front of him, covered in what looked like mud and dirt in the Dr. was really creeped out when they then told him who they were and that they wanted to talk to Sabine. He reluctantly he reluctantly went to grab her. She came down and Harold immediately started to talk and Dr. Franklin heard everything he hears Harold say.
01:15:02:13 - 01:15:27:23
Unknown
Sabine, dear, we need. We wanted you to know at once that Frank and I have just finished killing your mother and your sisters. He then hear Sabine say, I'm sure that you've done what you thought was necessary. The doctor admittedly freaked out and he went and ran and called the police. Yeah, the police got to the doctor's house, which seemed,
01:15:27:26 - 01:15:55:18
Unknown
Which seemed odd that they never left because they knew that the doctor heard everything. So they just stayed there because to them, they, they weren't doing anything wrong. It was to kill him now or it's what happened. so the, the three ended telling the police everything because again, to them they did nothing wrong. And they that because they wanted to be pure and they cleansed their souls by cutting them apart.
01:15:56:18 - 01:16:27:29
Unknown
obviously Frank and Harold were arrested. Their trial took two years and they were in there were talks. The death penalty. However, in that time, Frank and Harold were sent for a psychic. Psychic psychological evaluation, and they were eventually ruled as criminally insane. And they were sent to the Madrid Penitentiary. Penitentiary or penitentiary Penitentiary Psychiatric assistance center. That's just a very long name.
01:16:27:29 - 01:16:50:12
Unknown
It is, Yeah. So, Sabine, because of her, her trauma, was scared. She begged the court to allow her to go with them. Which she was obviously denied. And to make this story even more fucked up. In 1990, when Harold was 61 and Frank was 36, they somehow escaped from the facility, never to be seen again. wait.
01:16:50:19 - 01:17:17:07
Unknown
well, they're going to walk through the door. They're right there. Is there is this theory because nobody's heard from Sabine again, either that they think that they may have left or found her, killed her, killed, killed all of them. Yeah. Helen finished business, clearly. Yeah. Who? Sabine. So that is what the Fox cult I have called. Is it still a cold murder of the Alexander family?
01:17:18:22 - 01:17:35:16
Unknown
my God. That one was. That was. Yeah. And so I know how you. It's one thing to, like, have a one crazy person, but to, like, convince a whole family. Yeah. And I don't. I don't understand the idea of. Okay, You told me that at some point you're going to tell me you're going to kill me, and I just have to be quote it.
01:17:35:17 - 01:18:03:04
Unknown
Yeah. Like, I'm going to be cool it. And it's weird that they're like, sitting on the bed and he's just like, it's the killing hour. And she's like, Okay, yeah. It makes me wonder what the, the, the writings were. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. God, that was fucked. Yeah. Yeah, it was intense. Well, from what I. What I've seen is that the Law Society didn't and the like, the original teachings were as crazy as they ended up becoming.
01:18:03:04 - 01:18:28:00
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is why I'm so removed from religion. It's terrible stories. I mean, it's unpopular opinion. I think all religions are cult cited, so I think it's all weird. I think, I mean, at one point Christianity was seen as a cult. Yeah, right. well, that the. That was fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. In this whole episode of sucked up how are you feeling?
01:18:28:03 - 01:18:50:02
Unknown
Deeply disturbed. Yes. that one was fucked. I didn't. Don't like that. Yeah, I don't either. It's crazy that somebody can convince their entire family of this murder or whatever kill or whatever the fuck they call killing over a killing. Yeah, that's just outrageous. I just like, as I was reading it, I'm like, This all feels like a movie.
01:18:50:05 - 01:19:09:07
Unknown
Yeah. No, it's all feels fake. Yeah, I. Yeah, No, I just. I'm surprised. Is there not a movie about that? I didn't see and feel like That's crazy that that was not right. Yeah, it's just such a maybe people are like, I'm not address, I'm not touching that one cause it's. But yeah, I don't know. Possibly. Yeah.
01:19:10:06 - 01:19:31:14
Unknown
wow. Today's scary. Those were. Those are interesting. I feel like there's a lot of juicy horrible meat to cults. This is why. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that there's more, I mean, there's. I was saying that there was quite a bit of. there's a lot cult murders, and, like, we could have multiple episodes on. Well, the that one's crazy.
01:19:31:14 - 01:19:50:27
Unknown
The mass suicide. my God. I know. Was that Johannesburg? What was that? I don't know. It's just one a few. Yeah, I think that one was fucked up. That was like Jonestown. Jonestown. That's Jonestown. I mean, that's like a similar. How do you convince people to be okay with their own deaths and that way? Yeah, just killing them seemed like a massacre.
01:19:51:02 - 01:20:18:22
Unknown
Yeah, I'm actually surprised that we both picked the ones that were not, like, super known. Yeah, I didn't know this one at all because I didn't know you were either. Which is. I didn't know that one. Yeah. God Crazy craziness. All right, well, that was episode seven, which is exciting. so as always, please rate and review, but go to Apple Podcasts and do it right now as a five star, but do it so that you can be a part of our What's the to give away.
01:20:18:22 - 01:20:39:09
Unknown
Yes. And then also our hometown murders send those in again they have to be cases that are, you know, older. as well as you know. Yeah. Give us your own little take in. We'll read it through the dramatic eyes of you. Do the you do the research and just send it in and we will read it and it'll be great.
01:20:39:09 - 01:21:05:16
Unknown
So those are on and I will do my best at it and not stumbling on everything. People stumble, which I love Will And it's so great to have you back. Hannah. Yes. Yeah, I'm happy to be here soon. all right. Perfect. Yeah. Onto episode eight. What's episode eight about? Episode eight is our Mommie Dearest. Episode Moms who kill Zoo murder Moms who shouldn't go.
01:21:07:20 - 01:21:31:28
Unknown
all right. Moms who kill Slay Mom, Jesus is so inappropriate. All right. And on that note, we'll catch you at the next episode. Death by Total.