Tampa Murders

Episode 1

Florida is a fucked up state. As two gays living in Tampa, we should know!! For our very first episode EVER, we're getting into a murder that's personal. Okay...not that personal. But a few years ago, we had a serial killer on the loose in our Tampa neighborhood!!

Howell Donaldson III admitted to four murders in Seminole Heights. Now imagine sweet Brandon alone in the apartment because we were briefly living apart for work. His only companion was our tiny Boston Terrier who didn't want shit to do with protecting him from a serial killer! Luckily, Brandon made it out alive to see the day when he couldn't figure out how to say the word tragedy.

To commemorate that horrifying time, Kevin is dishing all the gruesome details. Prepare to be gooped AND (say it with me) gagged. After, Brandon is taking us back in time to hear about a case that actually contributed lot in the governments efforts to demonize weed.

So, this killer not only killed his whole family, he also played a part in killing all of our dreams of getting high and having a great time! Rude bitch. He's telling the tale of Victor Licata, the dream slayer. Victor was often referred to as "queer" but don't worry, that just meant strange back then. He's not one of us!

Basically, Victor thought he was just dreaming about a floppy axe but actually, he was brutally killing his whole family. We can't wait to get into this absolutely fucked up mess with you. Just remember, murder is NOT funny. But we are! So sit back, relax? And enjoy the show. And if you're thankful to finally have a gay perspective on true crime, don't forget to rate and review the show. Also, share it with your friends because otherwise, you are a loser!

00:00:02:07 - 00:00:28:28

Kevin + Brandon

Welcome to Homicide, The podcast. I'm Kevin. And I'm Brandon and we are your fabulous, amazing gay hosts. But this exciting new true crime podcast. Hi, Brandon. Hi. We may be a few years late to the craze, but we decided to jump on the bandwagon. I know. And this really weird thing is happening to me right now where I want to be on SNL, but like in the skit called Deliciousness.

Transcript

00:00:29:01 - 00:00:49:18

Kevin + Brandon

Hello and welcome to The Delicious Dish. I don't know why it's the microphone. It is a microphone. And some are aspic, which I called ACL earlier. Okay, Brandon, I want to introduce our amazing producer, Anna. Hi. my God. I guess he has a microphone, too. I feel so official. You are. You are 100% official, which is kind of fun.

00:00:49:19 - 00:01:15:04

Kevin + Brandon

And then I actually met in a podcast called Hello. We met in an improv class that's much better. And she's funny, spoken, talented, and I love her. And here she is producing our podcast, so. thank you. One over here, pushing the buttons. Okay, so if you listen to our intro, you are trailer. You already know that we just love murder so much and that we wanted to put just a little gay spin and turn on little our own little gay twist.

00:01:15:06 - 00:01:33:16

Kevin + Brandon

There's some flare and sparkle and murder and we go because they all go together so well. They do a podcast sometimes that have way too long of an intro really annoying me. So I think that we should just maybe dive into our very first murder. Let's do it. It's a year in the making. I started my notes September of last year.

00:01:33:20 - 00:01:54:01

Kevin + Brandon

my God. This first episode. Yeah. Let's actually address that for just a second. We were going to produce this podcast last year at this time and then didn't just happen. Know lots of shit happened, but a little bit about us again. Kevin Brandon We're married, gay and married, so we're gay. Married, which is great, but just normal married, Gay marriage.

00:01:54:02 - 00:02:08:17

Kevin + Brandon

Gay marriage. Well, we need to separate that out for all of the people who don't love homosexuals and how the flow of our of our podcast is going to go is we're going to each come to the table with a murder that we found. And neither one of us really knows entirely the murder, except for my first one, just because we have some person.

00:02:08:20 - 00:02:26:12

Kevin + Brandon

Kevin spilled it to me already. That too. I was so excited, guys. But we're going to go through it. Each of us telling each other and reacting the real way. And just one each episode we'll have some guests will do the thing. It's going to be exciting and fun. We'll have some themes. Yeah. And every every week we'll try to do a different theme.

00:02:26:12 - 00:02:45:04

Kevin + Brandon

If not, we'll just be like, Screw it. We liked this one. Speaking of which, today's theme is what it. Well, since we decided to do this over a year ago, we were living full time in Tampa, Florida at the time. So we said, why not do Tampa murder Tampa, Florida? Tampa's that actually pretty cool city in a weird, weird state.

00:02:45:07 - 00:03:00:11

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah, Yeah. But we are recording in New York City right now because we also live in New York City. Yes. We're a little bit busy. No, we're not that wealthy, but we do like to live in two places. We bought a really cheap house in Tampa, which I'll actually explain about because my murder is very much related to our neighborhood.

00:03:00:13 - 00:03:18:04

Kevin + Brandon

Do you want to just. I just start to go for it. Okay. So Brandon and Hannah, because Hannah's here as well, and all of you listening. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a friend. I was going to say a round of applause, but it was really long and it's like, no, you're animals when you say thank you.

00:03:18:06 - 00:03:41:26

Kevin + Brandon

Yes, we do have Marty Arbus, interior and K both sleeping off screen. Both are off screen, but right by us, because that's their life. I guess. We're good dads. I suppose so. Okay, so I'm going to talk about the Seminole Heights serial killer of Tampa. I know. So, interestingly enough, all of these killings happened in the fall of 2017.

00:03:42:01 - 00:03:59:11

Kevin + Brandon

The serial killer's name is Howell Donaldson, the third. No, I did put a couple of facts in here, which I thought was compelling, and that's how many. So how many people do you have to kill? Do you know this? Do other We know this. How many people do you have to kill to be considered a serial killer? Isn't it something like five?

00:03:59:18 - 00:04:18:26

Kevin + Brandon

my God, No. That's like too much. Is it two? Okay, so it's three. Okay, So. So somebody established that. my God. Okay, You killed one guy. Two Got it. three. my God. You're still killer. So three or more killings and you become a serial killer. And how actually killed four. So, motherfucker, remember this one?

00:04:18:29 - 00:04:35:24

Kevin + Brandon

This was news all over Tampa. It was so intense. With that. I also think that this is an interesting fact as well, that 82% of American serial killers. What race do you think that they are? there for sure are white men 100% white. So what's interesting about this case is how will Donaldson the third actually happens to be a black man.

00:04:35:27 - 00:04:55:26

Kevin + Brandon

And so I thought that the numbers in general were really interesting. 82% of Americans are killers are white, 15% black, and 2.5% are Hispanic. By the way, I pulled this from the U.S. Department of Justice, comes with facts. You know, it's like that, but it comes from the Encyclopedia of Modern serial killers from 1990. she's a little out of date.

00:04:56:04 - 00:05:18:23

Kevin + Brandon

that's a little bit. Thank you. I think that white people are actually like 95% at this point. And I'm sure, like a lot of our listeners weren't born then in 1990, 1990. I mean, even Brianna already she was born in. So they just gave away her age. I mean, everybody can see the white and it's not like it's that noticeable that we're not well known.

00:05:18:23 - 00:05:40:01

Kevin + Brandon

We can talk about it. How old are you? Okay, 36. Why? You called me out like that, though. You just called the old sir. Okay, I'm 37 anyway, so to break this one down a little bit, because it had didn't happen that long ago. So 2017, I feel behooved to explain that to people a little bit about Tampa and similar highs and also good word.

00:05:40:06 - 00:06:07:14

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah, thank you. But also talk about Ybor City and Tampa just because there's like deep, deep, deep history for stuff. It's in the South, but a deep history just in that area. Anywhere. So first and foremost, the area, because it was settled in 1823, but technically it was occupied by indigenous peoples, Indigenous peoples before that, Indigenous peoples who occupied the area in Tampa Bay with the Minnesota Taco Burger, which also was known as the Marcus Mark.

00:06:07:21 - 00:06:30:12

Kevin + Brandon

So the Butcher, these the poi, the calusa. And there you'd see a lot of traps out here. I know out there we're not there right now. In 1824, Fort Brook, that was established by the US Army in 1824, which is close to where Tampa's Convention Center is now. And if you've been to Tampa, it's like in the downtown area, right on the water in the bay, actually very gorgeous over there.

00:06:30:12 - 00:06:57:10

Kevin + Brandon

But that is actually close to where Fort Brook originally was established, which it was established there because people wanted to protect themselves from the Seminole population that was that inhabited the area much after the Spaniards came in and they killed everybody with their, as it were, pan diseases, civil worse than Tampa into disarray in the 1880s, which I thought was really compelling because I feel like when we moved there in 2017, it was also a little bit in disarray.

00:06:57:11 - 00:07:13:21

Kevin + Brandon

But like coming back. Yeah, like I remember Tampa when I did the Disney College program, the internship there. I remember them saying that Tampa was like, not where you went. Yeah, when I went to school in Sarasota, which is just south, and people would go up there and everyone would talk about how awful it was and how shady Ybor City was.

00:07:13:21 - 00:07:29:03

Kevin + Brandon

And then when we moved there, I was like, It's what a what are people talking about? Yeah, I know it was kind of cute, but it was a little edgy. Also, we lived in Brooklyn. That's true in the past, which I thought was like very bohemian. And then just like, I don't know, it was edgy. So Tampa reminded me of that.

00:07:29:03 - 00:08:07:10

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah, specifically Ybor City. But anyway, Tampa was originally called Tampa Town, which I think is really weird. But more importantly, Ebola, which is such a cool fucking part of Tampa. It's like this huge brick city styled like the French Quarter. It is New Orleans, lots of like music venues and restaurants and like clubs and just cool shit. But anyway, Ybor City was established in 1886, which Brendan I know but was settled by a Cuban cigar manufacturer or a whole bunch of them actually, but specifically by Vincent de Martinez or and then Ignacio Haya, which I didn't know that there's a hotel like this cute little boutique hotel in a bar called Hotel Hire.

00:08:07:13 - 00:08:26:06

Kevin + Brandon

So cute, gorgeous. You don't feel like you're in Florida at all. Also, Tampa in general doesn't feel like Florida. No, it's kind of I like it because it is an interesting place. But Ybor City specifically and actually the surrounding areas, which includes like similar heights, which I'll get back to, that area was actually all immigrants from Spain, Cuba, Italy and Germany.

00:08:26:06 - 00:08:57:18

Kevin + Brandon

What's crazy about Tampa is that it went from in 40 years, it went from a thousand residents all the way to a hundred thousand. wow. Which is like that's a major growth. Girls, you know, they were doing something right. And anyway. Exactly. So the 1920s here's where it gets funky. The 1920s, Ybor City became incredibly overrun with crime and corruption, like where the corruption was like it bled into the police force and like lawyers, like just across the board was pretty bad.

00:08:57:18 - 00:09:21:23

Kevin + Brandon

But it's also also during that time, which Florida is interesting, there's no basements in Florida, which I grew up in Colorado because it's like it's sea level. Correct. But that's still weird to me because I grew up near mountains. So I'm like, it was a basement, but ever dug out tunnels underneath because during Prohibition that they would sneak in all, you know, alcohol and drugs and all this kind of shit, all of this history, lists of material.

00:09:21:23 - 00:09:37:15

Kevin + Brandon

Thank you. So Tampa and I should, like, be hired by, like the city of Tampa or, like, visit Tampa Bay because I'm like, giving all these like, my God, go visit with that. There's cool areas like Ybor Water Street, Hyde Park, Bayshore Boulevard. Like there's just a it's a cool city in general. It's rich and culture, music, art.

00:09:37:25 - 00:09:54:26

Kevin + Brandon

my God. And the cool thing about Uber is that there's a roosters, chickens everywhere, everywhere, like roaming the streets, like you got to pass to let like a group of chickens like a fucking pass. Also, they're protected. You can get fined, you can't. And we know who actually runs the organization that protects them. But anyway, really cool area.

00:09:54:26 - 00:10:18:21

Kevin + Brandon

With that, let's talk about Seminole Heights. So Central Heights is a neighborhood that's right beside. So it's smaller city. Yeah, Ybor City. And then there's an area called VME Bar, and then it goes into Central Heights. So Seminole Heights is this area of Tampa that was a big focus for the city with all these bungalow homes like California's style bungalows that were made out of wood in Florida with hurricanes.

00:10:18:21 - 00:10:39:08

Kevin + Brandon

Anyway, hey, we have one and it's still surviving. So we do have one. Did something right. We did something right. But with that, Seminole Heights is like a charming neighborhood that also has a lot of art and restaurants and just like cool hip people in general that occupy that that area. It's very progressive, pretty liberal, I would say in 2017.

00:10:39:10 - 00:11:00:15

Kevin + Brandon

Brandon of the year, we just moved, yes. Brendan Do you remember when we moved there? I do. We were Kevin was actually living. We were living apart from each other. He was living in South Florida, still working at the agency. So we weren't like separated or no, because we were moving from South Florida to Tampa. Yes. And so for nine months, Kevin still worked at his massive agency.

00:11:00:17 - 00:11:29:25

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. Which is when you. Every weekend. Exactly. So during that time, we bought our house in August of 2017. Also, we're in New York, so if you can hear any alarms, cyber sirens, somebody is dying somewhere and they'll probably be on our stuff anyway. I'm kidding. So with that. Yes. Yes. Those are. But works very well. It did, although the trigger would have been really fucking.

00:11:31:25 - 00:12:00:06

Kevin + Brandon

okay. So Cinderella to us, that's. my God. That makes sense though, for a gay podcast. Back to it. Serious face. Okay, so Butler House in August of 2017, October 9th of 2017, Seminole Heights forever changed downtown for us. The ninth of 2017 of Benjamin Edward Mitchell, who was 22, was waiting to board a city bus to see his his girlfriend.

00:12:00:06 - 00:12:26:28

Kevin + Brandon

He was an amateur rapper, also a college student that was studying business and philosophy and as he's waiting for the bus, all of a sudden he got shot four times randomly just out of nowhere and obviously died. The interesting thing about this, this first murder was that it was caught on a security camera, which I don't remember at the time, But yeah, so kind of back up to the to the handle.

00:12:27:00 - 00:12:48:24

Kevin + Brandon

Donald Howell Donaldson the third. So remember that name for just a second. But October 9th, 2017, the first victim, Benjamin Edward Edward Mitchell, was killed, right? Yeah. What's interesting about the area, though, is that because it was a transitional area that was there was a lot of crime. And so it wasn't it was alarming, but it wasn't as maybe alarming as it started to become.

00:12:48:25 - 00:13:06:02

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. So just a few days later, the area is there's just a lot of people and it's active and, you know, it's right in the same area. Carole Baskin my God. I was like, I'm Tiger King. Brandon Okay, If you watched Tiger King there was this moment where Carole Baskin was like, I met my husband on Nebraska Avenue.

00:13:06:04 - 00:13:27:12

Kevin + Brandon

Right? Okay, listen, Nebraska Avenue is a place where a whole bunch of sex workers are a whole bunch of drugs are like it is not. If you're familiar with Denver, Colorado, it's like the Colfax Avenue of Tampa, Florida, maybe worse. Like it is shady as fuck. Anyway, so clearly Carole Baskin Love you, girl. Actually, I don't. But we know you were a sex worker.

00:13:27:13 - 00:13:49:20

Kevin + Brandon

Okay, So anyway, moving on from Carol. Nothing wrong with it. No, no, there's not. Yeah, just own your truth. So, a few days later, October 13th, 2017, 32 year old Monica Hoffa was found in tall grass in an overgrown, vacant lot by a landscaper, which those are some details. I was like, I you know, if you if you say somebody is like found dead in a lot.

00:13:49:22 - 00:14:08:11

Kevin + Brandon

But if you add the context of like, grass is an it makes you think of like you as the landscape are going to like clear out the grass and you're like, what the fuck? You know, my first thought was, what was he like trimming the grass and like, they hit her body? I know, I know. When that traumatic 100% detrimental.

00:14:08:13 - 00:14:30:09

Kevin + Brandon

I mean, finding a dead body in general is dramatic, though. I would think so. I've never done that. I never have. And I don't want to do it. I would like to know also, we should clarify. Please don't murder us in general. Thank you. Or murder or or anybody. Look, if you're listening to this, like, here's my here's my beef about programs like Dateline's and Forensic Files, if you watch those fucking shows, they give you every single thing to do to clean up your murder.

00:14:30:14 - 00:14:53:29

Kevin + Brandon

yeah. Well, they teach you what not to do. I know. That's what our podcast is going to be. US telling stories of people killing other people. And I didn't get away with that. I know this is not an educational. No, this is not. This is a narrative. It's not for children storytelling. Okay. Anyway, so Monica Monica, interestingly enough, was on her way to also meet a friend on the evening of October 11th.

00:14:54:01 - 00:15:12:22

Kevin + Brandon

So remember, this is the 13th when her body is found. So she actually the last time that she was seen as, I think, a 45. Yeah. So she was last seen on October 11th at 8:45 p.m. Benjamin was killed by four shots to him. Monica, her body was found about a half a mile from where Mitchell was murdered.

00:15:12:28 - 00:15:31:16

Kevin + Brandon

So it was not that far in general. And she actually was only shot three times. So she was shot once in her neck and then twice in her back, I guess, which is awful. Like from the back. Yeah. So like twice in the back. So like, both of them didn't see their killer. Also for murderers, if you're going to kill somebody, let them see you.

00:15:31:17 - 00:15:49:17

Kevin + Brandon

Screwed, right? Super fucked up. Like who they can tell. October 13th. Here we go. Monica. Poor thing. This obviously kickstarted a little bit of like, interest, right? To be like, shit. Neither victim actually showed any signs of assault at all, and there is also no sign of robbery. So it was ruled out immediately as a motive. Yeah.

00:15:49:17 - 00:16:12:06

Kevin + Brandon

Which I found to be really kind of interesting in general that they could like to know that but in both have everything true. True. Okay. So several bullet spent bullets, shell casings were found like in both of the areas. So they they already knew that both people had died from the same gun, which was a 40 caliber Glock, which I don't even know what the fact that I don't know if you did.

00:16:12:06 - 00:16:38:12

Kevin + Brandon

I don't. Okay. Your brother would. 100% would for sure. We'll talk about Joe and Brendan's brother. So jump forward just a few days. So October 19th, 2017, there's another person killed. So this time it was 22 year old Anthony named Bella, I think is how you say his name. This was a cool kid. He had been working a temp job packing meals for hurricane victims, you know, So he actually had this source fucked up.

00:16:38:12 - 00:17:01:13

Kevin + Brandon

So basically, Anthony had gotten on the wrong bus, got off of the bus to get to the right bus and was killed in between that time. So if he didn't get off the bus, just Yeah. So which is fucked up. So in addition to that, he was actually autistic. So it's even makes it even like, I mean, murder in general is awful but like this was a Yeah, awful.

00:17:01:13 - 00:17:22:00

Kevin + Brandon

This particular murder happened several hundred feet from where the first victim had been killed ten days prior to that. So, like, so. Right. All right. In the same area. Yeah. Which I think is like work. So that's actually more so when the police started to be like in okay, these are connected now insert something a little bit different.

00:17:22:01 - 00:17:41:22

Kevin + Brandon

We lived in the neighborhood, so these people were getting murdered just blocks away from my house. So I'm living in South Florida. I'm alone in our house with our with our tiny Boston terrier who's not going to protect anything. No. A murder would come in to be like your friend time. We did not do well as parents when we were living there.

00:17:41:22 - 00:18:07:25

Kevin + Brandon

Since our relationship is interesting and I'm aggressive and like kind of 100% the one that would probably, like, get a bat and go after somebody. Absolutely. I don't have a gun, but I mean, I said so at the time. Brandon was alone at the house in this neighborhood. That was a transitional neighborhood. But we also lived on 22nd Street, which 22nd and 10th in Tampa is the was the biggest drug corner in all of Tampa.

00:18:07:25 - 00:18:26:16

Kevin + Brandon

Allegedly, it was 100%. We would drive by and there would be tables of drugs set up. I mean, it happens maybe a couple of times. All right. Brandon, actually reached out to his brother, Joe, who lives not too far from us. And actually, I think Joe reached out to me. I'm thinking I think he reached out and was like, hey, you're living in the neighborhood with the serial killer.

00:18:26:19 - 00:18:46:12

Kevin + Brandon

Do you want to borrow a gun? And I'm like, yes, please. Yes, I know. I've never I've come to the shooting range once and I'm terrified about guns. So sure, I'll take a gun, so scare the shit out of me even driving it to the house. Okay, well, then tell your little story about you going out into the backyard with Marty, with the gun.

00:18:46:14 - 00:19:01:23

Kevin + Brandon

So you're just going to call me up like the first fellow? Okay, So we had. We had just bought the house a couple of months prior. We didn't finish the the side of the fence of the side of the house where the fence was wasn't finished. So it was completely open on the side and we had no lighting in the back.

00:19:01:23 - 00:19:17:26

Kevin + Brandon

So if we went to go take the dog out, I had to bring her outside on a leash. And so I was terrified because I couldn't see. It was really dark. There was an abandoned house behind us, so it was just dark and scary. So I went out there with the gun, but I was too terrified to even have the gun on me.

00:19:17:26 - 00:19:34:12

Kevin + Brandon

So I kept the I think, you know, it's called the Magnus magazine and the rest of the guns separate because I didn't want to put it together and just potentially shoot myself, which in hindsight, if somebody was coming up to attack me, the first thing I'm going to do is not going to sit here and try to put a gun to those motherfuckers on the free does.

00:19:34:18 - 00:19:50:16

Kevin + Brandon

Exactly. And then I would have gotten shot. I would have died that day. So cute. This is why I would need to be there. What would I do? Well, okay, here's a great story, actually. So another time, not too long after this number, that big oak tree that was in our neighbor's yard. my God. One night we're dead asleep.

00:19:50:16 - 00:20:12:24

Kevin + Brandon

It's like three in the morning was between three and five. Okay. They were dead asleep. Dead asleep. And I sleep in underwear at this point, which TMI, but that adds value to the story. All of a sudden, we heard what we thought was like a bomb. It was the house shook. It was fucking weird. So I freaked out, grabbed the gun in my underwear, run outside to run outside.

00:20:12:24 - 00:20:28:13

Kevin + Brandon

I ran into. He ran. Right. Our neighbors are out there. And I'm like, with the gun and my under. And I'm like, God. And there was just a big ass fucking oak tree in our yard across the street. I had smashed a car across. It was fucked up. That was the other. I mean, you started protecting us though.

00:20:28:15 - 00:20:48:28

Kevin + Brandon

Sure. Okay. So back to this incredible story. So we were really close to where these murders were happening. And it was actually pretty it was pretty scary. No, we weren't like walking around in general. No, but a lot of people in that area were lower income. They didn't have cars that they took public transportation. So it was a scary kind of time.

00:20:49:00 - 00:21:13:27

Kevin + Brandon

November 14th. So a little bit longer away. It's about a month. Six year old Ronald Felton was killed. He was actually murdered just blocks from where a memorial was set up for the other three victims, I guess, which is fucked up. So Ronald was, like, in his own neighborhood? Yeah. Like, so which is interesting because if they're all being killed within that area, I'm sure the cops were like, This bitch lives over here.

00:21:14:03 - 00:21:30:25

Kevin + Brandon

for sure. Here's what's. Okay. So on Nebraska Avenue, not too far from our house, there are food. There's a food pantry, There's a few heat. Ronald worked at a food pantry on Nebraska Avenue, and he was. It was like five in the morning, I guess. And he was on his way to, like, be a good Samaritan. Yeah.

00:21:30:27 - 00:21:48:18

Kevin + Brandon

So Ronald was on his way to me, a church pastor, and was crossing a street and was shot and killed, like gunned down just walking across the street. Walking across the street? Yeah. So, like, so random, right? So. And I think that at the time the cops were like, this is fucking random. It was all over the news.

00:21:48:18 - 00:22:04:03

Kevin + Brandon

I remember being all over the news. It was kind of a big deal. And they were like this, like, be careful, this is all random. We don't find any ties to this. Like, whatever. But they knew it was a serial killer and they were calling him a serial killer by then. Yeah. Fast forward November 28th, 2017, McDonald's in Iowa City.

00:22:04:05 - 00:22:26:17

Kevin + Brandon

We had we have been there so many times. So many times because we've been drunk. And when Donald's or just went because we're overweight. Okay, so McDonald's, Ybor City, a lot of people know this. McDonald's, a cop is sitting at a table eating what I'm assuming is a Big Mac. I don't know. Let's just add that an accident just he was eating.

00:22:26:23 - 00:22:44:23

Kevin + Brandon

That's all I know, eating hamburger. And the manager comes up to him and she's like, my my employee, Howard Donaldson. The third just handed me this bag. It feels like it might be a gun he left to go get money and said that I needed to, that he wanted to keep it because he had done something really bad is going to leave or whatever.

00:22:44:25 - 00:23:06:19

Kevin + Brandon

Well, just gave it to his manager. Yeah. Which I have conflicting stories. One of them said it was like in a paper bag and another one said it was like in a sandwich bag, which a sandwich becomes like over something. Which bag? Like a wonder bread sandwich bag that's like a mini gun like from men and black people, you know, like, that's not, that's not okay.

00:23:06:20 - 00:23:27:29

Kevin + Brandon

Anyway, when Donaldson returned from getting this money, he was arrested on suspicion. So he originally didn't deny that the gun was his. But he did deny that the murders are he did deny the murders in general, but he did consent to a search of his vehicle. What's interesting about this is that when they searched his vehicle, they found two clues, which was the clothing.

00:23:27:29 - 00:23:45:04

Kevin + Brandon

Remember that the first murder that was caught on camera, the clothing matched that he was wearing? Yes. And then there was blood on the clothes. He just kept it in his car. Well, this was like less than a month. Just a month later. Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because, like, who is and I don't work at this McDonald's, but like, if somebody came up to me, they were like, Here, hold this package.

00:23:45:04 - 00:24:00:27

Kevin + Brandon

And I got it. And I felt a guy and I'd be like, my God, fuck this, this. But that's what like, I wouldn't I mean, technically they did if they went to the police. I know they did, but like, I just like the thought process of like, what do you it's more I would say it's more of a thought process of, of like, okay, let me give this evidence to somebody.

00:24:00:28 - 00:24:17:13

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. Yeah. Who could easily just turn me in. Yeah. So after that of course they had the guy and so they matched or they tested all the shell casings and everything and they matched the gun and all of the murders or I think it was maybe three of the murders. So they also he like said, yes, you can take my phone.

00:24:17:13 - 00:24:41:11

Kevin + Brandon

So they also figured that with his phone records, the phone matched three of the murders. Location wise, I do think that this is really interesting. So the manager at McDonald's who got the cannon reported him. Her name was Dylan to Walker. And Dylan, duh, walked away with $110,000 for turning him in. Damn girl. Right. So in that point, I'd be like, Yeah, give me the guy.

00:24:41:17 - 00:25:04:10

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah, right. yeah, for sure. I know that after that trial, it was really rough because his parents were like, not letting. There was a lot happening in general with them having to, like, get a confession, but like, just a lot with that. So anyway, 2017 is when this happened, this actually this last October slash right now, this October marks six years as it was when I was like 2018, 19 to 1 another.

00:25:04:12 - 00:25:24:25

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. So with that, the actual trial just ended in May. Yeah. And so the trial ended with how Donaldson the third admitting that he did shoot and kill all four of those people. So he did plead guilty to avoid the death penalty. Did he ever say why he just why he then why he did it? He just went up totally random.

00:25:24:25 - 00:25:48:04

Kevin + Brandon

His lawyers tried to. So he was diagnosed schizophrenic and his lawyers definitely tried to, like, use that internally. It didn't work just at all. And Florida's really interesting when it comes to like crime and convicts, particularly with with minorities. So there's some weird stuff, I think, with the trial in general. But he did admit to a killing of four people and is now serving four consecutive life sentences.

00:25:48:04 - 00:26:14:29

Kevin + Brandon

Yes, that should be first one down. I know that that's scary a little bit, because that that's it can be that random. Yeah. That you just don't know. But I feel like most murders are not usually that random. No, they're mostly all calculated or they're thinking about something. Brandon, tell us your story. Are you excited? This is my very first Homicide podcast episode that I started, and this is Brandon's first.

00:26:15:02 - 00:26:37:29

Kevin + Brandon

There's a lot of firsts here. My first time. Yeah. All right, Pop in my Do you need to do you need the little the little inspiring queeny little more in. This is the story of Victor Lucado. Victor The Dream Slayer. The Dream Slayer. Angel. You know I love anything with Slayer because of Buffy the Vampire Slayer above the memory.

00:26:38:00 - 00:26:55:15

Kevin + Brandon

So service will go on. If you're listening to this, they love you. Okay? Yeah. Because she'll be listening to the very first episode. She might. Yeah. I mean, you never know. Dreams. my God. Right. She may be one of our 113 TikTok followers. And if you're not following us on TikTok, go check this out. Thank you. 113.

00:26:55:17 - 00:27:14:24

Kevin + Brandon

But, Brandon, I think it's 117 now, but I know. Thank you. But Sarah Michelle Gellar, just as a quick little Segway. You know, when I was younger, I wanted I was very confused. I wanted to both be her and I also wanted to date her. but mostly be her because I was a flaming homosexual of. So that's the story.

00:27:14:26 - 00:27:34:22

Kevin + Brandon

That's great. Thank you so much for that. Thank you. Okay, tell us. Okay, so for my first episode, I decided to choose somebody that I've never heard of. And I did a little bit of digging to see if there's other podcasts and there's only a couple. So I'm excited to share this one. Like, you mean podcast that I've featured this murder that has featured only a couple.

00:27:34:26 - 00:27:53:11

Kevin + Brandon

Okay, cool. And this is an older, older murder. It's in the thirties, so there is a lot of differentiating information that I found out about it, and I tried my best to combine it into one narrative that makes the most sense. So first, thank you for that great intro to Eibar City, because that's actually where my murder is from.

00:27:53:12 - 00:28:14:19

Kevin + Brandon

But yeah, so Kevin didn't also add in there is that Ybor City used to be Cigar City, so there was tons of cigar factories in our city and with the cigars with Prohibition came the mob. So the mob was a really big and active in Tampa. That was the Italian mob in the Cuban mob for for a really long time.

00:28:14:19 - 00:28:44:25

Kevin + Brandon

And it's really how the city grew. There was prohibition was big and then there was gambling. And so a lot of corruption. Yeah. So there's a lot of corruption and crime within it. So my story is about Victor Licata. He was born in 1912 to immigrant parents. Michael in Brasilia, Lakota, 1912 of that was he was alive on the Titanic saying is that where April 1492 my God, maybe not but that when then April 14th, 1912 and I'm trying to hear Rose, but you can sing it, but I can't remember.

00:28:44:25 - 00:29:11:01

Kevin + Brandon

Right. Okay, well, keep going anyway. So Victor always seemed to be a typical boy, although he was not unfriendly, he was a very quiet kid. And many friends talked about him being soft spoken and people often described him as queer. So he was you. I'm not a serial. I'm not a killer. Yeah, but back in that time, queer meant strange or peculiar Know it's not what it means now.

00:29:11:01 - 00:29:39:04

Kevin + Brandon

It's weird. Is pretty queer. So. So Michael Licata, Victor Ellicott, his dad was pretty well liked and respected in the area because he owned I saw he owned multiple so two or one barbershop called Eagles Barbershop. There is some different information about that, but I don't think that really matters. But he was really well known in the neighborhood and in IBA because IBA had a really tight community at that point.

00:29:39:04 - 00:30:12:08

Kevin + Brandon

So everybody knew him. And so he had so he was soft spoken, queer. And the barber? No, that's Michael. Schecter was queer and soft spoken. Michael was the father of Victor. Got it? Yeah. All right, well, so we write things down for you, and it's such a bad time. You're welcome. Well, anyways, as Victor grew up to be a little bit older, people started to grow cautious of him for two years prior to the killing, which will get to neighbors and friends, were touting how crazy and unstable he was.

00:30:12:11 - 00:30:34:12

Kevin + Brandon

Learn that being Victor. Hold on, Marty. Marty. Marty, Go to bed. Go to bed. Martina's walking around. No, she's like, investigating. She's gone. So in today's world, we wouldn't call Victor crazy. He was just. It was evident that he had untreated medical disorders suffering from spells of psychosis. And he had issues deciphering what was real and what was not, which is terrifying.

00:30:34:17 - 00:30:52:29

Kevin + Brandon

That and his known use of marijuana in the six months leading up to the murders. People were scared of Victor. So back then, people didn't know much about marijuana. You know, people it's medicinal. Had this role. Yes, it was going through a lot of it was being used in a lot of drugs. But also people were kind of scared because of its psychedelic properties.

00:30:52:29 - 00:31:14:25

Kevin + Brandon

And they said this whatever. So because of this and other interactions with Cada and what neighbors and family and people were saying a year before the murders, the local Tampa police filed a lunacy petition against him to try to get him locked up, which is so this is all prior to murder? This is all prior to this is this is the setup to the murder.

00:31:14:25 - 00:31:38:27

Kevin + Brandon

Wow. So are you grouped and gagged right now and secured So now for a little bit more of that decision making, Victor's parents insisted with the police that they could give him better care and watch over him better. And they begged him to keep him in their care. And they vowed to increase their oversight on his behavior just to get the police to go away.

00:31:39:04 - 00:31:56:12

Kevin + Brandon

Wow. So, like, for me, if this was my child, I would be like, yeah, let's maybe go get this checked. Like, if why not? Let's just bring him to the hospital of just a doctor, put him in care. Remember, his victor wasn't a very large man. He was about five, eight, £127. So he was a little a little man.

00:31:56:18 - 00:32:17:16

Kevin + Brandon

So he didn't come off as a big threat. However, it is reported that his family was terrified of him, so they protected him, but they were scared to even to the point where many sources said that his father would keep a gun underneath the mattress. What the fuck, right? Would keep a gun underneath the mattress just in case.

00:32:17:16 - 00:32:39:01

Kevin + Brandon

Okay. If you had a child that was I feel like there was a movie with Elijah Wood and that something like this. But Macaulay Culkin, I don't know if you were a parent that had a child like this. You do. Or Brandon, you first. If I had a child that I thought might kill me, I would probably, I don't know, bring them like I just said to a mental facility.

00:32:39:01 - 00:32:59:23

Kevin + Brandon

You have them go talk to people like, I don't want to have to sleep with a gun under my mouth. I know. And then what would you do? I mean, it's it's hard. There's not a lot of protections. Yeah, things like that. Clearly. I mean, he had a gun under his pillow or bed. my God. So any of you listeners, if you have to sleep with a gun under your bed, make some decisions.

00:32:59:23 - 00:33:19:05

Kevin + Brandon

Something needs to change because things might happen. So gun. Okay. So on the night of October 16th, 1933, which is actually really crazy because it's the 15th that we're recording this Also, all the serial killer murders and similar happened in October. That's crazy. November. But three of them in October. my God. You know. Okay, well, I'm sorry.

00:33:19:05 - 00:33:45:25

Kevin + Brandon

Wrong button. I know. No, but that was exciting. So that was I guess so. Okay. So on the night of October 16th, Victor Lucado was tormented by a nightmare. God, don't forget, he's the dream slayer. right. So in this dream, Victor remembers being pulled from his bed by his father and being pinned against the wall. So just imagine this.

00:33:45:27 - 00:34:09:09

Kevin + Brandon

Somebody taking somebody, hitting him up against the wall. His mother then came running into the room with a huge carving knife and they sawed off his arms and jabbed wooden prosthetic arms with iron claws attached to them, to his bloody stumps. And this is like from what all the sources say is what he said. This was a dream.

00:34:09:12 - 00:34:28:15

Kevin + Brandon

This was his dream. Yeah. All of the while, his siblings were watching and laughing. So Victor said in his dream, he grabbed an ax. But it was a funny one, like a rubbery like it was from a cartoon, which kind of reminds me of who Framed Roger Rabbit. Do you remember that? There was a hammer, though? It was a river.

00:34:28:15 - 00:34:52:23

Kevin + Brandon

It was guns. yeah. Rubbery. So that's what I just pictured in my head. And he knocked each one of his families unconscious with it and then run the blood from it as though it was a wet towel. So in this dream, the blows knocked them out. But he insisted he did not kill them in this dream.

00:34:52:26 - 00:35:19:27

Kevin + Brandon

Right. Fucking weird. Okay, so this. I had a dream with that cover. No, I do not dream of that kind of. Show me neither. Okay, so the next day, neighbor started to get concerns. There was one story that I read that there was a neighbor who heard noises at 2 a.m., but I couldn't really fact that one or really have a lot of sources that said that.

00:35:19:27 - 00:35:40:06

Kevin + Brandon

But allegedly there was somebody that heard something around 2 a.m. So in this tight knit community, it was uncommon for no one to step out of the house that day with Mike owning his own business. And there being two of the children in the house were school aged something then sit right in. The neighbors decided to call the police for a wellness check.

00:35:40:09 - 00:36:00:23

Kevin + Brandon

So when the police arrived to their typical Ybor City bungalow, which we've talked about to love, a good bungalow in Ybor specifically, I guess this is a Tampa thing. They're also called Casitas. Obviously, that's the Spanish term for home. But when they got to the door, no one answered the locked doors and they had to find their way in.

00:36:00:26 - 00:36:23:08

Kevin + Brandon

So entering the home through a window, they found Victor hiding in a bathroom, curled up in a chair, dazed and confused. And he was murmuring incomprehensibly, which is terrifying. He was dressed in a white shirt and well pressed trousers, as if he had woken up that morning and like started his day. But below his clothing was stained with blood.

00:36:23:11 - 00:36:49:04

Kevin + Brandon

I'm picturing, like, this gorgeous ivory pressed outfit and just the 16th and blood. Yeah. Is that basically what? Well, no. His outer clothing was not stained. His skin was stained with blood. You know, he it was just some point. So he had just dried blood clothing. Yes. And put new, fresh clothing on. So it was crazy. Yeah. So after a bit, the police started to understand him and he was mumbling.

00:36:49:07 - 00:37:11:01

Kevin + Brandon

They heard him saying that his family was trying to dismember him and replaces arms with wooden ones. So he's mumbling this whole time and he's saying things like by about his dream. And I thought so the way the house was set up, the bathroom was all the way in the back of the home. So by the time Victor or the police found Victor, they had already walked through the entire home.

00:37:11:01 - 00:37:28:18

Kevin + Brandon

So very typical for a bungalow, by the way, in Tampa that that's all the way like. So imagine stepping through a window and walking down the hallway, speaking in every room. First, you walk by the first bedroom on the left, wedged between the wall in the bed with a blow to his head, drenched in blood. They see Michael Licata.

00:37:28:21 - 00:37:52:11

Kevin + Brandon

So Victor's father. So from the Ripley's port, that there was signs of struggle because he was wedged in between the wall in the bed. He was only 47. my God. Yeah. So continuing on, they found his sister Providence, who was 22, and his youngest brother, Jose, who was only eight dead with obvious signs leading to accidents in the second bedroom to the left.

00:37:52:11 - 00:38:14:06

Kevin + Brandon

So it wasn't a river, it was not a river, nor I think it wasn't a dream either. Can we take a pause and just celebrate the name Providence? Right. Really cute girl. So one, it's a really beautiful town in Rhode Island also that know. Anyways, then in the in the last bedroom of the house, they found his mother, Celia.

00:38:14:08 - 00:38:41:12

Kevin + Brandon

She was 44 dead next to Victor's 14 year old brother, Philip Ricardo, lying next to a bloody ax, still breathing and moving. They rushed him to the hospital where then he died. He did die of your own funeral. A few hours later, the Tampa Daily Times reported on October 17th that and this is directly from them. Each was apparently killed by blows on or just above the right temple by the blunt edge of the ax.

00:38:41:15 - 00:39:03:17

Kevin + Brandon

Inspection of the bodies revealed head injuries. Only the faces of the mother and the father were mangled and apparently had been struck more than once. Only one wound each appeared on the younger sister and boy. Eyes of all of the victims were blackened and swollen, like how graphic was also in the newspaper. It's also very especially at that time.

00:39:03:17 - 00:39:23:15

Kevin + Brandon

But what's interesting, though, is that these were all that's a whole group of people. And he was one person. Yeah, but like, how how Yeah. Like was it one by one each time somebody came home? Well, it doesn't say in here. Yeah. But he did go room by room at least so she had to have some sort of whatever.

00:39:23:15 - 00:39:45:13

Kevin + Brandon

And it's also the middle of the night. So he's true. I just those bungalows are quite small. I mean, they're. I'm what, 1200? They're like all wood in general but. Well yeah. So as the police started escort Victor out of the house, crowds of people started gathering around to see what was going on. And this was before phones and news and whatever.

00:39:45:13 - 00:40:04:20

Kevin + Brandon

And the people just had to get out of their house. So they all swarmed. And once people started to hear what happened and turned into kind of a spectacle with people starting to scream, get him and kill him. like in there was like I read a report that there was like a ton of people out screaming this in front of the house after police questioning.

00:40:04:20 - 00:40:34:02

Kevin + Brandon

Victor never said that he murdered them. He told them about the dream he had, but he never killed anyone. So one officer even asked him, Why did you kill your family? And his response was, did I do that? You? Why? What is that from did I do that? Is that Steve Urkel Family matter? That was creepy. Okay. So jumping back to when Victor was younger and as I said, he had some misdiagnosed mental disorder.

00:40:34:02 - 00:41:07:00

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. Through this, Victor ended up being diagnosed with dementia praecox. I think his I you say with homicidal tendencies. So it's now called schizophrenia. So he was schizophrenic with homicidal tendencies because I don't believe that always comes with schizophrenia. You just said homicidal tendency. I'll just say that was purposeful. So which at this time, state attorney Rex Ferrier didn't believe him and he intended to seek to seek a murder indictment against Victor.

00:41:07:19 - 00:41:35:02

Kevin + Brandon

he was even quoted saying from the testimony I have there is no indication that Victor Liccardo was insane three days before the slaying. There is evidence he was addicted to marijuana cigarets and reason to believe he was under hallucination at the time of the slayings. It may be possible he was subjected to hallucinations from the doped cigarets and previous occasions, but the testimony shows he was not insane, but it was in possession of normal faculties.

00:41:35:02 - 00:42:00:26

Kevin + Brandon

On Friday night faculties. I don't think that was the word associates say. This one definitely spelled faculty. It is right. Right. And that was a direct quote I copied and pasted and I read to myself and didn't realize, I mean, to misunderstand the word and how to use it. We anyway, now, many in this family knew that this was actually that Victor had a mental illness because it was not an uncommon thing in the Liccardo family.

00:42:00:28 - 00:42:28:15

Kevin + Brandon

So at trial, a psychiatrist argued that he was subject to hereditary insanity. So he had two cousins and a great uncle that was committed to an asylum. And it's also alleged that one of his brothers also suffered from dementia proxy praecox in the day. There were some questionable marriage arrangements. So like the fact that his parents were first cousins know, which they also said could have played a role.

00:42:28:16 - 00:42:51:01

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. So maybe, you know. GROSS So at the trial, most of his extended family attended and begged to not give Victor the death penalty, which is interesting to me that, you know, you don't kill your entire family. But being that they that they had mental disorder, that you so he was like their cousin brother, your uncle as well.

00:42:51:03 - 00:43:15:23

Kevin + Brandon

Correct. A few weeks after trial, a judge finally deemed Victor as criminally insane and ordered the sheriff to turn him over to a psychiatrist. And Victor was never charged for the murder of his entire family was. So instead, he was committed to life at a Florida hospital for the insane in Chattahoochee, Florida. And the judge ordered him to never be released.

00:43:15:25 - 00:43:48:08

Kevin + Brandon

I mean, crazy, right? Yeah. Well, it's not over. What? I have more for you, but no. So on October 15th, 1945, what year was the murders? That was 1833. So after being in the mental hospital for 12 years, Victor, alongside four other patients, sobbed through the bars, covering up their windows in escape to the institution. I'm sorry, How did they feel?

00:43:48:11 - 00:44:11:26

Kevin + Brandon

I don't I didn't see how or how he did it or how they did it, but they just said they saw through the bars covering up the windows. I just see like people shooting at bars. Yes. They saw it with their own bare minimum. So quickly the police were able to apprehend the four of their patients, but Victor was nowhere to be found.

00:44:11:28 - 00:44:32:26

Kevin + Brandon

Right. You know, I love the story. I mean, the fact that it's a murder, but I thought it was an interesting story. So in 1955 years after his escape, that's what I was trying to was he had not been found. He had not been found in five years. Okay. So he was he had escaped five years. His cousin Phillip was working at the restaurant that he owned in New Orleans.

00:44:33:02 - 00:45:00:09

Kevin + Brandon

And I'm sure you can imagine the surprise on his face when he sees his cousin Victor just walk through the door. Through the door. So he was obviously scared out of his mind. You know, he called the police who came to arrest Licata and brought him to Raiford. I think it's pronounced state prison in North Florida. So because Victor escaped the mental institution, he was held at Raiford for safekeeping, even though he was a patient of the the mental hospital.

00:45:00:15 - 00:45:20:26

Kevin + Brandon

After about four months, Victor ended up hanging himself with a bedsheet inside of his prison cell. So he died by suicide. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And I'm still not. well, there's a little. There's this one. Had a few different layers to it. thank you for saying die by suicide. We're not giving him any, you know, grace or anything like him, but.

00:45:20:28 - 00:45:40:15

Kevin + Brandon

But also die by suicide. Now, when the murder happened, there was no TV, no internet, no radio. And I'm sorry, there was radio. It had just started to gain popularity. So there was no TV, no Internet, no popular culture, really. It was just it was just the newspaper. So the people relied on getting their information from the newspaper.

00:45:40:15 - 00:45:58:13

Kevin + Brandon

But just like any other media outlet, there was a lot of newspapers at the time and it was basically like reality TV. They just wrote stories and threw it out there just to put it out. So there's a lot of information that's not true about the case in general. And I have a note in here. So it's no different than today's news.

00:45:58:13 - 00:46:29:18

Kevin + Brandon

Like Fox. So okay, So remember at the beginning when I mentioned Victor smoked weed? Yes. Very early on in the investigation of the word of his marijuana use, came out in chief Deputy Bush, who was the investigating Who was investigating the crime? I heard reports that the night before Victor spent the evening drinking moonshine and smoking weed. So because of this, he made comments stating that cannabis may have unbalance Victor's mind, at least temporarily, in the newspapers went crazy.

00:46:29:21 - 00:46:51:26

Kevin + Brandon

So the Tampa Morning Tribune stated that Chief Bush said maybe the weed only had a small, indirect part in the alleged insanity of the youth. The chief explained. But I am declaring now for the time that the increasing use of this narcotic must stop and be stopped. Yeah. Yeah. Great Republican talking point at the time. Exactly. And still kind of is.

00:46:51:28 - 00:47:15:28

Kevin + Brandon

So I just covered a few different articles and snippets from articles at the time. The Tampa Times on October 17th reported the kind of nightmare that lifts its ugly head out of a deadly combination of raw moonshine and dope officers viewing the scene of the tragedy. Tragedy as tragedy. You're so okay, Brandon, that's a little different. You said no, literally, we were sitting at the computer.

00:47:15:28 - 00:47:37:28

Kevin + Brandon

You were sitting here yesterday and he was like, it's 273. And I was like, It's 723. And he was like, Yeah, I hope it is. Yeah. He's severely dyslexic. This is not the first time. Yes, You're so fucking cute. my God. All right. Okay. Anyways, officers viewing the scene of the tragedy. Fred, why can't I just see the Holy Spirit?

00:47:38:00 - 00:48:03:17

Kevin + Brandon

Let me just help you. Tragedy. There you go. so, you know, I was proud of you. Declared a new their war on the marijuana traffic. The Tampa Daily Times on October 18th reported with headlines stamping out this weed, a flaming murder, marijuana smoke that inflames the brain vapor that turns the blood to seething boiling lava witnessed yesterday.

00:48:03:21 - 00:48:39:09

Kevin + Brandon

A slain family slain, a loved son behind bars and his fingerprints on the murder acts. And every law enforcement agency in Hillsborough County was ready today to open the fight to the to finish me. And I need to be honest often sorry. No kidding. I know it's because I'm actually reading it every agency in the Hillsborough County was ready today to open a fight to finish against the sale of marijuana, the narcotic which indirectly caused the murder of a family of five champignons coining the name Marijuana Maniac.

00:48:39:09 - 00:49:04:11

Kevin + Brandon

Victor's crime was the launching point for the anti-drug laws. Yes. So the case served to be an inspiration for media deceptions of normal people driven criminally insane. It's only got worse. Exactly. So what doesn't help change that narrative is that at the same time, a Harry Jay Engler became the first head of the Federal Narcotics Bureau, which later evolved to the DEA.

00:49:04:13 - 00:49:31:13

Kevin + Brandon

So as Prohibition neared its end, the agency had a hyperfocus on heroin and cocaine, and then noticing marijuana was turned into a popular drug. He set his eyes for it. So with Victor already being labeled the marijuana maniac, he was used as an example by every political figure that had an anti marijuana stance. Thank you. TAPPER Engler fed into it in the news articles and promoted the anti marijuana storylines he would state.

00:49:31:17 - 00:50:02:02

Kevin + Brandon

And Florida police found a youth staggering about in a human slaughterhouse with an ax. He had killed his father, mother, two brothers and a sister. Ordinarily a sane, rather quiet young man. He had become crazed from smoking marijuana. So through his influence in the media, Engler was able to convince Congress to pass the Marijuana Act of 1937, which levy taxes on those who dealt marijuana commercially or prescribed to professionally, because up until 1937, marijuana was still used as a prescription medicine.

00:50:02:05 - 00:50:30:12

Kevin + Brandon

So interesting that laws at that time have severely impacted where we are today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I blame incest. I would agree with that. Incest is the wrong choice. So this was the first step into the criminal criminalization of marijuana and the government use Victor as bait. So now there is a conspiracy. There's a conspiracy. I'm I know I'll get better.

00:50:30:12 - 00:50:58:20

Kevin + Brandon

I promise that Engler did not have the public safety in mind that some say he influenced by the family whose paper business was threatened by the industry, and also being friends with the Hearst family, which is one of the largest newspaper publishers at the time. And he aided into the campaign against the drug. And so a few days after the murder, Chief Bush did come out downplaying the role the drug has had in the murder in the worst of it.

00:50:58:20 - 00:51:17:02

Kevin + Brandon

When Victor was taken into custody and was tested, there was no trace of marijuana in his system. I was going to say, because marijuana is probably the thing that would help him like it not be so. Exactly. It would probably chill out the. Thank you. Those weird pills. The drug was never even referenced in any of any of the reports.

00:51:17:02 - 00:51:45:25

Kevin + Brandon

Wow. Yeah. So while some interesting facts, some of these I only saw in one place. Some of these I saw multiple places. But Victor had another brother who happened to be away at the time at Stetson University. I can see them in one night. His entire family, she works over. It's crazy, brother. Yes. Since Victor was found without blood on his clothes, people first thought that this was Mafia related because at the time, Mafia was really in the neighborhood.

00:51:45:28 - 00:52:12:14

Kevin + Brandon

And then at the same time, roughly 1920, loving the same, you know, the Mafia was like, No, that's fucked up. That was crazy. So and then roughly at the same time, 1926 to 1927 is now Fox of Tampa. It can be there was another mass murderer running around Tampa. Tampa, ten people were killed by a Benjamin Levins. Well, he was connected to at least five of them.

00:52:12:19 - 00:52:30:07

Kevin + Brandon

And I think he was charge for all five for five of them. But they were all believed to be connected. So that might end up being another story at some point. Benjamin Yeah. And then now from this, there was a movie that came about called Reefer Madness that was released in 1936, and it was the title sounds really familiar, but I likely have not seen it.

00:52:30:07 - 00:52:49:27

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah, so but it was influenced by the story. Wow. Brandon, that was fucked up, right? I told you I was like, It has layers. It's also interesting because I could picture the whole thing only because, like, our old office was in a casita on 19th anymore Bicentennial Park. And like, I just feel like that was, what, like the scene?

00:52:49:27 - 00:53:13:25

Kevin + Brandon

Yeah. my God. All right, guys, that was our very first episode. That wasn't so bad. A year in the making. You're in the making. It was not bad. And good stories. How did you feel? Absolutely incredible that all of that made me feel so good inside. I love that. Thank you. I feel so light. It's just so inspiring.

00:53:13:27 - 00:53:43:16

Kevin + Brandon

I feel like and I'm not going to take. Yeah. my God. I know murders aren't I don't know. Murders everywhere. But we do hope that you enjoyed this very first episode of Homicide. The podcast. And cue our sparkles. You know, I love it. Anna, Thank you for producing our podcast. Of course. And don't forget to subscribe, follow through on our socials.

00:53:43:16 - 00:54:06:10

Kevin + Brandon

Do all of that. Yeah. So we are basically going to be posting content, different content, I believe, on all of our social media platforms. So if you haven't yet, you can catch us anywhere that you listen to podcasts and then we'll be on YouTube, Subscribe there or TikTok, which will be our main platform. But of course we're on Facebook and Instagram we are not on the thing called X, which is to be Twitter, which should be Twitter again, but it's called X, so don't go there.

00:54:06:10 - 00:54:32:22

Kevin + Brandon

But we will be on everything else. Leave a rating and review because that's and that's that. That's what helps us grow. But why wouldn't you? I know, right? That's weird But don't leave us a bad one, Right. Rude if you're here, like say something bad about us being gay. Now keep it to yourself. Yeah. Then I'm going to get your handle and call you out on our podcast.

00:54:32:24 - 00:55:01:04

Kevin + Brandon

You know, Rah, rah, rah, rah, rah, rah. it's already over. There was like, a I don't know, there's also birds, right? Or birds or we'll put out or comment on some of that, but we'll put all the bad ones in our burn book. Yes, I do love a good burn book. Next episode. Brendon, do you want to talk about what our next theme is?

00:55:01:06 - 00:55:24:22

Kevin + Brandon

Yes, next episode we decided to go with our next love, which is New York. The first love. I mean, my first love would be you, but I guess. No, I'm sorry. So, yeah, we will be diving into some New York City murders. It's, you know, plethora in this great old, beautiful, lovely city. Every city, really. Tampa, clearly was fucked up.

00:55:24:22 - 00:55:33:19

Kevin + Brandon

So we'll see what we can match with New York City. Hey, Okrent. All right. Thanks for listening. Wow. Buying.