The Serialist of Serial Killers | David Parker Ray and Ahmad Suradji | Homocide True Crime Podcast
Listen on Apple, Spotify, iHeart Radio, and more!
Episode 15
You actually only have to murder three people to be considered a serial killer. But today's killers? They're over achievers in the worst way possible. We're talking double digit murders...😨
Kevin kicks us off by taking us to New Mexico, The Land of Enchantment...or so they say. We've got a naked woman running through rural New Mexico and breaking into a trailer. When I tell you this story is straight out of a nightmare...it will actually send a shiver down your spine.
David Parker Ray might have the ugliest dude you've ever seen, but he also has a side kick named (wait for it) Cindy Hendy. I guess being the biggest losers New Mexico has ever seen pushed them to their breaking point because these killers created "Satan's Den." CONTENT WARNING: sexual mutilation, torture, rape
Then, Brandon is telling us a tale of saliva + sorcery. And all I can say is...YUCK. Ahmad Suradji was a self proclaimed Dukun (AKA Shaman) in Indonesia. For some reason, he thought he should take his dreams literally. What did his dreams entail? Oh just normal stuff...drinking the saliva of like 70 women.
And he thought to himself "I can't possibly ask women to spit in a cup...So I'll just murder them!" When a 24 year old woman named Sri Kemala Dewi was discovered partially buried in a field, the true depth of Ahmad's crimes were revealed. Let's just say, this one ends in a firing squad.
If you enjoyed this episode, share it!! All of your gay friends deserve to know about the beauty and the magic of Homocide the podcast. And leave us a review, it's literally the only way to become a sexier version of yourself. I didn't make the rules! XOXO
Resources and References
Learn more about David Parker Ray:
Learn more about Ahmad Suradji:
Transcript
Welcome to Homicide, The podcast. I'm Kevin. And I'm Brandon. And if you're not familiar, Homicide, the podcast is the Best True Crime podcast hosted by two husbands that often get mistaken for twins. Hello. Hi, Brandon. True. It is. Okay. What's your story about today? Well, my story is titled Saliva and Sorcery. What? Crow. It'll be fun. Mine can be.
00;00;37;03 - 00;00;56;07
Unknown
Mine's titled something different, but I can describe it in two words. Toybox. You know, it sounds great. It is creepy. Okay. Our life has been really hectic. And obviously, our last episode, we talked about this little Miss Martina, who is here with us today is. But we won't get mushy this time. We aren't. We're not over, I believe us.
00;00;56;07 - 00;01;14;16
Unknown
But we were just you know, I think our tears have dried up because we have none left. And I'm like, what? It's like, I can't I can't do this anymore. It's like, Please, please, please stop. Anyway, we're back in New York City at our apartment, and for the first time in quite some time. Will you been here to do summer in person together?
00;01;14;22 - 00;01;34;19
Unknown
But Anna is also here. Hi. And I love it. I know it feels weird. I was feeling bad. It feels really good. Yeah. Yeah. That's. My hair is getting caught in my microphone. I must have heard. GROSS. Weird. Like, it's like. Can you see it? Yeah, we can hear it. you can hear it to grow. Yeah, it's.
00;01;34;19 - 00;01;59;10
Unknown
My market is different today. Yeah, like, you know, gross. Disgusting. Anyway, you know, we have so missed being in person, I, you know, I've missed being here, too. But I think you're you're doing something kind of big soon, right? I've been singing all of your social do talk like. my God. Yeah, a little. Shut up. Like, yes, I am going to start my own podcast.
00;01;59;13 - 00;02;22;06
Unknown
Yeah, Yeah. I love that so much. Thank you. I have been producing for other people for like a year and change, so I finally feel ready to do my own to dive right in. Yeah, I had my first interview on Friday when you already filmed. You've heard it already? yeah. Yeah. God, when is it launching? I don't have an exact date yet.
00;02;22;06 - 00;02;48;19
Unknown
I'm thinking, like, late April because I want to do as many interviews before I launch as possible. Up so smart. Yeah, because a lot of the people that I'm pitching are like, I can do it in a month. And I'm like, Okay, yeah, great. Which is totally fine. But yeah, I want to. Yeah. So you mean you don't want to do it like a couple of days before it's supposed to air and then get all freaked out because you're like, shit, we haven't recorded or edited or got anything right?
00;02;48;20 - 00;03;08;24
Unknown
I just like, don't trust my own energy enough. I know that I can go from one week to the next feeling so wildly different. Yeah, 100%. yeah. I want to be sure to give myself on the weeks that I like feel like trash. The ability to do nothing except forget it, because that doesn't really not. I wish the same like presents.
00;03;08;24 - 00;03;46;14
Unknown
Yeah, we that's a great advice for us. We don't follow. So. No, no. We know like this episode is supposed to open Tuesday. So Sunday, Sunday. That's okay. That's life on the show. Yes. Yes. But hopefully we'll get, you know, a little bit cut up to that. Said, we've had some pretty wild stuff happening in our life. But I do want to tell everybody, Brandon, I just want to give you some little, I don't know, accolades or a little shout out here because Brandon, I kind of forced him to join this organization called the AAF of Tampa Bay, which is the American Advertising Federation for like our industry that we have because we own an
00;03;46;14 - 00;04;04;27
Unknown
agency in Tampa. And I was like, Brandon, jump into it, be the president. And he did. I did. I did jump into it just being president. I did. I'm like, I know, barely nothing. Like, I don't really know anything about this organization. Might not be the president. Let's do it. But I will say I learned quick, though. You did.
00;04;04;27 - 00;04;31;07
Unknown
And you did a fucking incredible job. And I just want to say that you are much more powerful than you may know. Thank you. So you're welcome. It's a round of applause. Congratulations. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. Amazing. Anna, what is new in your life? Your mama just came to town, right? Yes. My mama came to town. We saw, like, five or four Broadway shows while she was here, which is more than I have in a really long time.
00;04;31;10 - 00;04;50;22
Unknown
So that was great. We saw Sweeney Todd Love. Very good love. Yeah. Sutton Foster went out. Love the water. Yeah. And she just came on to the cats, right? Yeah, literally. We saw her the day after her opening night. that night after. So it was her second, and it was amazing. Yeah. Second performance. And that's on me.
00;04;50;22 - 00;05;10;08
Unknown
That's right. Yeah. Broadway. It'll be fun. We have a 1 to 1 day. Yeah, No, we haven't. It was less so that we saw. It was the college of the cottage. That's right. What's the cottage? The cottage? It was. It's gone now. It was. It wasn't out for too long. No, it was whole area. It was actually really good.
00;05;10;11 - 00;05;27;09
Unknown
But Eric McCormack was in it and house was in it. I'm forgetting everyone's names. yes. Well, there was several other actors on it. Yeah. We play the guy that you did the show with. Alex Moffat. Yeah. I was my fault was in it as well, which is why we weren't. Because I did a film, the TV show.
00;05;27;09 - 00;05;42;15
Unknown
Hopefully that will be out soon with him. And it's only been like a year and a half. I know. So, you know, like a true beginning actor. I was like, I've been in something with him. I know him, Let me go support him, even though he's probably like, Who are you? Who are you again? Still, it's fun. Yeah.
00;05;42;15 - 00;06;12;05
Unknown
Yeah. I spent two days on set basically with him and and Vince fun. And so I was like, Awesome. Yeah. So I wanted to go to anyway, it was a great show. Really, really funny. Yeah. About how it was about conflict. It was. It was about a family. Okay. Keep it mysterious. I mean, there's there's this family that owns a cottage in some rural town, and this was in New York because they had, like, accents.
00;06;12;09 - 00;06;32;06
Unknown
It was. It must have been. And the the the mother who owned the building died. And so it was given to know it was it. Okay. So I'm just it was a family. It was a family cottage. And these two brothers and their wives would go to it. But then both brothers started sleeping with each other's wives and it was messy.
00;06;32;06 - 00;06;52;16
Unknown
And there was a lot of smoking. Yes, there was a lot of smoking. Cigarets They would yeah. They would pick out cigarets from like random random places like a gag of of the show. Yeah. But then at the end it was basically the, the, the mother that owned the property died and they found out that one of the ex-wife or one of the wives that was cheating on that got gifted the house in the will.
00;06;52;20 - 00;07;14;26
Unknown
Yeah. So it was this big dramatic story that was just was so good. Really funny. Can be the will. Yeah. You know what? Something so funny about using Cigarets like any smoking in a live show like that. Yeah. Is that I was in a show once where we had to smoke and we were smoking just like the floral cigarets and they were like, pay attention.
00;07;14;26 - 00;07;33;10
Unknown
Like when you start smoking, like, we can't do too much of this because people will start coughing. And it's just it's just and yeah, it's just an instinct like, it's not actually that it's like irritating their lungs at all because these are this is not actual nicotine, but everybody in the audience will just start coughing. That's so funny.
00;07;33;10 - 00;07;52;04
Unknown
So next time you're in a show and they start smoking Cigarets pay attention to some of your probably that's funny that you say that I don't remember anybody covered and these know these were real Cigarets yeah. this smells like real Cigarets now. Yeah, yeah. But I don't remember anybody. There was at one point, my God, there was a mistake and they handled it so it was so good.
00;07;52;04 - 00;08;14;02
Unknown
But because, you know, when you're on stage and something happens and it can just throw it all. Yeah. Especially if it's a new ID. Like if you're just coming out of Tech Week and you're like going into, my God, opening. But basically this woman went to go get something. It was a, it was like a glass of, like, of whiskey, but the glass flew out of her hand, flew into the audience, and she was like, like smashed.
00;08;14;02 - 00;08;34;06
Unknown
And like, got all over this guy. It was it was so funny. And every one of them, like, played into it on the stage, too. I mean, each one broke right in. They were like, Yeah, each one. And then they just played into it and it was clearly improv for a hot second. Yeah, yeah. And then right back into the script, it was so, it was so well done that I was like, Was that scripted?
00;08;34;06 - 00;08;49;21
Unknown
Yeah, Yeah. Like it was. It was, it wasn't. But it was. It was really funny. Anyway. Well, I'm glad that your mom came. Tell her. Well, she'll probably listen, but tell her that we're sorry that we missed her. You know, we wanted to do a little episode with her here. I know she would have loved that, you know, but.
00;08;49;24 - 00;09;11;24
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she'll be back. But anyway. All right, well, okay, Well, do you want to say a little or a little episode notes for even though this isn't really happening, But let's, you know, go ahead and yeah, if you have a hometown murder, which we haven't really done in quite some time, but if you have a hometown murder, which is basically a hometown murder, be sure to write it to us right into us.
00;09;12;00 - 00;09;37;20
Unknown
Right. That's weird. Right? Murder homicide podcast dot com. Yeah, that way we can have you join us on the podcast. Yeah. In person if we know you or digitally and you can tell us all about your hometown hometown murder and then obviously, please subscribe, but please rate please review only five stars and that's it. Then there's our watcher and it agrees.
00;09;37;22 - 00;09;57;01
Unknown
Yeah, we're watchers like thank you Thank you for watching close today Yes please subscribe. All right to do who goes first today? I believe you do. I'm pretty sure I went last time. Okay, cool. Well, shall we dive in? Yeah, let's do it. All right, here we go. I also need to get. no. Marti fell off site.
00;09;57;03 - 00;10;28;02
Unknown
Not my team. Well, you put Marti back up. Let's listen for one. well, we'll note it now. She's here. Let's actually. Let's do it. Because only for the well. Definitely got a camera. I was literally about to say she didn't fall between the couch. Good. But because you made her fall behind. Okay, so everybody okay, we just changed out some media cards and situated turned off our washer and you might notice that Martina has now gone.
00;10;28;02 - 00;10;49;22
Unknown
She has fallen. And yes, she she is wherever you go when you say, but I was going to say she went below the couch, but apparently her picture fell behind the couch. So she's still here. She is. You see, she's here. She's below us, which is I mean, she would often go below the couch anyways, so maybe that's a good spot for that picture that I felt.
00;10;49;22 - 00;11;14;22
Unknown
And I was like, my God. Her foot was sticking out from right under here. Yeah, she's okay. I didn't step on her that. Martina, she so yes, she is no longer behind us. She's under us. So that's up. Okay. Anyway, she's still here. She's still here. Okay, so I go first, right? Yes. All right, let me just.
00;11;14;25 - 00;11;42;03
Unknown
This is what happens when you're you do a podcast as you're doing a thousand things at the same time. And now our files transferring. Great. Okay, so my episode today is titled Dear David Your Mustache is Ugly. And it was ugly. Yep, yep, yep. You. He's an ugly dude. He's an ugly dude with an ugly mustache. Yeah. And I don't know that we said the actual title of this episode.
00;11;42;07 - 00;12;00;24
Unknown
we did it. Episode 15. Can you believe that we're an episode of. No, I mean, you even just saying that was like, Wait, what? I know it feels weird, but this episode is titled The Serial List of Serial Killers. Yes. Which by the way, Serial is part two of our serial killer episode. Yeah. Part two. We've only done one suite.
00;12;00;26 - 00;12;20;10
Unknown
I mean, we've technically done serial killers, but we did one episode that was specifically serial killers. That's right. Now, I'm not remembering any of them, but I think was. David Whatever. Coral Albert Fish No, that was not no, Albert was gross. Albert It was very gross. He was not a serial killer that way. No, no. He like, I thought he was.
00;12;20;15 - 00;12;41;21
Unknown
It was he And I don't remember Albert. I mean, wait, you only had 15, but it's a lot to remember what was in like and the ticktock on two. Like, I did a textbook on Jesse Pomeroy because that little kid was a shitbag, you know? That was the one of the milk. Yeah, well. GROSS. Anyway, okay, so, dear David, your mustache is ugly.
00;12;41;28 - 00;13;08;08
Unknown
Okay? It was the afternoon of March 22nd, 1999, when Cynthia Vigil, a 22 year old sex worker who was seen completely naked and screaming as she sprinted down the dirt road in southern New Mexico, just out of fear of how she looked. A woman in the car who saw her locked her doors and sped away. Cynthia, I mean, I think she was probably in distress.
00;13;08;10 - 00;13;34;04
Unknown
I mean, if you okay, if you were driving on a backcountry road in New Mexico, I'm sorry. No, I would be driving away. Some never met some naked woman on the road. But let me describe what she looks like, because then you might be like, yeah, yeah. Which is horrible. But Cynthia was covered in bruises and blood from a head wound, had a metal color padlocked around her neck and a chain dangling behind her.
00;13;34;05 - 00;14;03;02
Unknown
No, I mean, yeah, that's terrifying. I think I'd call the police, though. I would absolutely call the police, but that's terrifying. Yeah, Like I'll go up the road 5 minutes. Keep running. I'll call the cops. Yeah, that's true. Anyway, another car saw another car saw her as well and sped away, which is horrible. But eventually Cynthia reached a set of homes and trailers along the road, located one that seemed a little bit more well-kept with a door that was open.
00;14;03;02 - 00;14;32;17
Unknown
And then rushden. So now imagine that you're sitting with a guy with no and you're watching TV, which is busted the apartment, some woman, it blows and with a metal color and chain and blood and yeah, that would be terrifying. So that's what happened. So this woman went through a lot of shit that's awful for both sides. Why it So basically, Cynthia goes into this this house, this trailer slams the door behind her, locks it out and out of fear that they may be following her.
00;14;32;24 - 00;15;05;20
Unknown
She begs the surprised homeowner to help her. So the surprise woman in the home immediately called 911 covered Cynthia with a robe. And Cynthia, who had just gotten into the home, did not know where she was, but quickly learned that she was 150 miles south of where she lived in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Jesus. So this is the story of David Parker, Ray, who is also known as the Toybox Killer who raped, tortured, manipulated and murdered what the police believe is more than 60 women.
00;15;05;26 - 00;15;29;17
Unknown
Holy shit. A town of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. We're going to take. Sorry, That's the name of your town. Where in fucking name in New Mexico is Truth or consequences? New Mexico. And it is so foreboding. Why would I? Why would anybody want to live in the place name? I'm going to dive into this. So anyway, but also like New Mexico's like really pretty.
00;15;29;17 - 00;15;53;19
Unknown
But it's also very strange. It's really already and it's really ugly at the center in this lesson. Be real. Okay. So this is there's only one more note here that I said. So with not one body recovered, David is likely the most famous serial killer in the state of New Mexico. Okay, so what about now? Just wait. I was going to say Billy the Kid, but he's not a serial killer.
00;15;53;22 - 00;16;14;23
Unknown
Billy the Kid Now, wasn't he like a Western? Yeah, he was just like you. But if he pew, pew, pew, he must have pulled a lot. Yeah, like he's definitely a murderer. Okay, I concede he should have been. But anyway. But anyway. Okay, so, New Mexico, I have some facts in here, but as most people know, I was born in Roswell, New Mexico.
00;16;14;26 - 00;16;39;15
Unknown
I only lived there for two years of my life with my biological family is a lot of them are still there on my dad's side, including my biological dad. So I used to drive from Denver to Roswell and I would go I 25 and basically take a sideway towards Vaughn, New Mexico, which like the stretch between Albuquerque and New Mexico or Albuquerque.
00;16;39;18 - 00;17;00;09
Unknown
Albuquerque and Roswell is like, really desolate. Yeah. And it's really pretty, but it's or it's creepy and it's really I don't know. Yeah, it's really pretty, but it's creepy just because it's so quiet in. yeah, it is. It is very scary. And there's just something about it that I remember. I think the last time we went, I'm like, I'm really glad we're not driving at night.
00;17;00;12 - 00;17;24;20
Unknown
And I used to do it at night. That's creepy, you know? So, okay, New Mexico is nicknamed the Land of Enchantment and is the country's top producer of Per Light, which, by the way, is a type of glass used in insulation and gardening, installation and gardening. Yeah, know flower, which I was like the last use. What? And then I'm like, I don't care.
00;17;24;21 - 00;17;45;03
Unknown
So I didn't I didn't get any information. Really? Who cares? Yeah. So anyway, so here's some kind of interesting facts about New Mexico in general. So New Mexico is also the home of Roswell UFO Museum near the spot where some people claim a UFO crashed in 1947. If you have not been to Roswell. No, that's okay. That's okay.
00;17;45;07 - 00;18;02;18
Unknown
Yeah, it's an interesting place. I did take inspired and I took them to the UFO museum. I remember immediately we like, drove and I'm like, I feel very uncomfortable here. Yeah, It's like, I don't know why, but, like, the energy just was weird, and there were, like, Trump flags at every single goddamn. Yeah. In the UFO museum was fucking strange.
00;18;02;18 - 00;18;20;28
Unknown
There was a lot that you had to read. I don't want to read. It was like a wall, like a book. And it looks like it was in, like a cafeteria. It's like you enter it and you're like, That's a weird little. I don't know. It's like a cafeteria. Yeah, of fake walls. It was. It was weird. Like, they clearly have no money.
00;18;21;01 - 00;18;43;06
Unknown
Some other stuff that is interesting about them. It's not my favorite place. Next episode, we are sponsored by the museum. Do you have a museum in Roswell? Anyway, a new Mexico also produced some famous people, obviously, like every say. But Georgia O'Keeffe, who's a famous artist, is from there. There's actually if you go into Santa Fe, New Mexico, which is beautiful.
00;18;43;08 - 00;19;05;06
Unknown
So you there's a whole Georgia O'Keeffe museum. Yeah. Which is was pretty great too to go in to. Singer John Denver is from there. Amazon founder Jeff Bezos is from there really did not know that. And then of course, actress Demi Moore is from Neil Patrick Harris, too. I didn't know that. I think so. He's from Ruidoso. I know he has a house there, but I didn't know he's from the area.
00;19;05;18 - 00;19;22;18
Unknown
know that interesting thing about Demi Moore, too, is I was born in the same hospital as she was. And once upon a time, my dad was like my biological dad was like I went to high school with her. But I was reading her bio today and I was like, she didn't go to high school anymore. So. So I'm like, okay, dying.
00;19;22;18 - 00;19;43;11
Unknown
So I know she lived there for like six months when she was 14, which would put her in high school. That was my immediate turn, which would put her there. Yeah, during some maybe they had a little stent thing into the same age 62. I have no idea. Demi Moore is 62, right? Yeah. That doesn't surprise me too.
00;19;43;11 - 00;20;15;29
Unknown
Most cheekbones. Yes, she is. She's gorgeous. So I'm like, girl, we were born in the same hospital, were friends of besties. Yes. She's 61, according to Google. So she will be 62 then? Yeah. November 11th, 1962. Okay. So she will be 62. I think my dad turned 62 in July or 63. I don't know. Anyway, okay. every year in October, New Mexico hosted the Albuquerque International Balloon Fiesta, where hundreds of hot air balloons launched into the New Mexico skies, which is actually really neat.
00;20;15;29 - 00;20;42;23
Unknown
Yeah, I have been to that. When I was a child. I don't remember it. Both the Carlsbad Caverns and the White Sands National Monument are also in New Mexico. Carlsbad Cavern is actually really cool. Yeah, I have been there. Have you been watching to them, too? You know, because the white sense is really cool. Everybody has seen it because the film Independence Day, the O.G., the number one I mean, everybody who's seen that movie has seen it, hopefully.
00;20;42;23 - 00;21;08;02
Unknown
Have you seen Independence Day? Yeah. Okay. Yes. Fantastic. God. When Will Smith is, like, running in this sense? Yes. So that's why it's in National Park anyway. National Monument White Sand is gorgeous. If you've never been. It's right outside of Alamogordo in New Mexico. Loved it. Not creepy, but it's also where the first nuclear explosion we know the world's first nuclear explosion occurred.
00;21;08;04 - 00;21;32;25
Unknown
That's great. And Los Alamos, New Mexico, on July 16th of 1945, The code name of the test was Trinity, which I found to be interesting. No one probably cares about any of these facts, but I do. I love it. Keep going. So New Mexico is also known for its hatch. Green chili. Yeah. Yes. Delicious. Yes. Which is a unique pepper that's grown only in the Hatch Valley of New Mexico.
00;21;32;27 - 00;21;51;13
Unknown
This is what's really cool about it. And I'll say why we like it so much, but there is nowhere else in the world that has the same growing conditions that can produce the hatch. Green chili. Yeah. No, Isn't it basically like a Anaheim pepper that just grown basically in the. Yeah, yeah. In the Hatch region and it's like the whatever the soil is and those growing conditions produce the specific flavors that go with hatch green chilies.
00;21;51;13 - 00;22;12;06
Unknown
So from all the aliens, they left something behind in that region. But we actually love them so much. And it's like in my blood because I'm from there and it spreads not only into there, it goes into Texas, it goes into California and Colorado, like this hatch, green chili season in the fall where they roast them. So Brandon and I actually order them.
00;22;12;13 - 00;22;29;20
Unknown
We do from the Hatch Green Chili region and have them shipped to Tampa so we can have our own little hatch green chili roasting party ever. Yeah, that's fun. We like a ton of hatch green chili stuff in Lubbock because there's it's so close. It's so close to the region. Yeah. So same as Colorado. All the grocery stores with like literally be roasting them outside of it.
00;22;29;24 - 00;22;46;24
Unknown
Now it's an annual event We have we've done it twice. We've done it twice. That will be every year moving forward. When he was like how many pounds you ordered, like £20 of peppers and I'm like 25. Like, I'm like, I hope we use these old. We actually gave out quite a bit, so it was good. Yeah. We give everyone a little peck to go home with.
00;22;47;00 - 00;23;05;18
Unknown
My God, Green chili, mac and cheese. yeah. Delicious. I don't know if I mean, it was sour in Colorado before. it's really yummy. Yeah. my God. Yeah, We still have a whole bunch of outside the temple house. Actually, I do. Yeah, I'll bring some. I'll give you some little taste of home. Yeah, Yeah. And then.
00;23;05;23 - 00;23;24;29
Unknown
Okay, so here's some other interesting facts. New Mexico is this has the second highest murder rate in the United States and has officially earned its reputation as the second most dangerous state in the US. that's cool. I'm like, Wow, Do you know what? Because it's my I, I used to hear I think my dad used to say this.
00;23;24;29 - 00;23;57;14
Unknown
This is actually problematic, probably this out. But he would say it's a third world state. I'm going to get that deleted. Delete it. I mean, he's he lives in Lubbock. So like, I don't know at all. You know, that whole area. Right. It's an interest. It is definitely an interesting place. Okay. So let's talk about the town called Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.
00;23;57;16 - 00;24;22;16
Unknown
Yeah, it is a real town. Like you Googled it like it's real. Like it is a town called Truth or Consequences. New Mexico. But why did they just lose? There's a story behind. I don't get the story, but there's a story behind that. So it's located. So Truth or consequences. New Mexico is located off of I-25 between Albuquerque, Bacup, but maybe Albuquerque and Las Cruces, which Las Cruces is right on the border.
00;24;22;21 - 00;24;46;03
Unknown
That's a few miles off the border of Mexico near Paso. And see something some town over there and across the border. But, originally Truth or Consequences was known as Hot Springs. The town was called Hot Springs, New Mexico. That sounds better. Yeah. Wait. I know of Hot Springs, New Mexico. Well, let's consider the consequences of that. Okay?
00;24;46;05 - 00;25;15;20
Unknown
And it changed a while ago. So Truth or Consequences got its big name in 1950 as part of a publicity scheme to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Ralph Edwards. Hugely. Hugely. I can't touch the hugely successful game show on NBC radio. So Edward Ralph would actually travel to Truth or Consequences annually with all of his celebrity friends to celebrate the truth or Consequences Fiesta, which actually still happens today.
00;25;15;23 - 00;25;42;04
Unknown
And it's a small resort town that's known as America's most affordable spa town and a resort town. Yes, there's there's a hot springs there. There are hot springs. There is a culture who thought to consider going through the consequences. I know. I was like, what? When I'm reading this, I'm like, No, no, no, it's not. It's it's like already setting it up for a murder to be happens there.
00;25;42;04 - 00;26;04;25
Unknown
I think, you know, murder to be happening. I agree. So, yeah. So here's what's interesting. This man, David, with the ugly mustache, his name is David Parker Ray, which I said in the intro, but he was actually born on November 6th in 1939 in Belen, New Mexico. Also somewhere I didn't hear of, which is about 35 miles south of Albuquerque.
00;26;04;27 - 00;26;32;15
Unknown
His dad's name was Cecil Leland Ray, and his mother's name was Nettie Opal Parker. So he had a younger sister named Peggy Pearl Ray and him and his sister were actually raised by his mother's very strict parents. Russell and Dudley Parker. He lived on a small ranch and grew up quite poor. So David was bullied by his peers for his appearance because he's ugly as fuck.
00;26;32;17 - 00;27;06;07
Unknown
And he was also quite shy around girls and all of that bullying actually contributed to his reclusive and disturbed adolescence, which okay, so with that, from a young age, he developed an obsession with bondage and sadomasochism. that's something interesting to get into at a young age. Thank you. So here's what's interesting, though. So his dad, who he would not really see very often, would fuel his fantasies and would bring him violent porn magazines when he would see him.
00;27;06;10 - 00;27;29;18
Unknown
Who I mean, I understand, like supporting your child and all, but like, not that that's not the right way. It's not like it's like, I want to be in theater. Daddy know like that. I'm going to be violent porn. Violent porn. I can't. Even So, anyway, because of the bullying that he endured, apparently he started abusing drugs and alcohol while he was in school.
00;27;29;18 - 00;27;57;04
Unknown
So David's sexual fantasies of raping, torturing and even murdering women developed during his teenage years. So when he was 14, his sister saw his sadomasochistic drawings and pornographic pictures of bondage practices, which eventually led to their estrangement. So she was like, Goodbye, Winnie, which like, I probably would have done that too. there's I think there's a child outside.
00;27;57;06 - 00;28;29;10
Unknown
Right outside. Find somewhere else. There. Okay. So. okay. Kevin, Just children, you know? Okay. Only when they're related to me. Okay. There is a recorded message by David from July 23rd, 1993, where he is where he said, I've been, this is horrible. And this actually gets a bit dark. So a little bit of a trigger warning. jeez, I've been raping bitches ever since I was old enough to jerk off and the little girl's hands behind and I said it wrong.
00;28;29;16 - 00;28;53;22
Unknown
I've been raping since. This is horrible. I've been raped and bitches ever since I was old enough to jerk off and tying little girls hands behind the back. What the fuck? Yeah, he's a chum. Okay, so he actually alleged to his first wife that he had committed his first murder sometime between 1957, in 1958. But this has not been proven.
00;28;53;22 - 00;29;18;07
Unknown
What's interesting about that is that he graduated high school in 1957. So after that, he served in the U.S. Army. He received an honorable discharge from the U.S. Army, where he actually worked as a general mechanic. So he eventually settled in Elephant Butte, which is right. These names, I mean, it's in Mexico, but it's like a reservoir that's like right outside of truth or consequences in Mexico.
00;29;18;09 - 00;29;50;29
Unknown
Anyway, he found a job there as a maintenance man for the New Mexico Parks Department and Truth or Consequences, where he would often pick his victims working in bars. So he lived on this Elephant Butte Reservoir, which is still a part of truth and consequences. It was just like right outside of it, like a neighborhood of. Yeah. So Ray eventually met 37 year old Cindy Hindi, Cindy, Cindy, Andy, who worked at the state park in Truth or Consequences.
00;29;50;29 - 00;30;23;17
Unknown
What's interesting about little Cindy Hindi is she was fleeing convictions on grand theft and drug charges in Washington State. So she was a little criminal. She was. So they quickly became bonded clearly, but they became bonded over their shared violent sexual fantasies. Like how do you get into conversation about that with someone? I mean, I don't have those things, so I don't I don't talk about it, you know, just yeah, that's yeah, I don't know.
00;30;23;19 - 00;30;52;19
Unknown
I feel like I have normal sexual fantasies, right? Like, I think I don't know. I just I if I ever had somebody talk to me about, like, I really just want to. Can you. Can I hit you in the face, my friends? I'd be like, No, no. Think you know. Yeah, I'm. No, I'm Ken. So anyway, and then I left for you, you know, so for me, in a 1993 recorded message, Roy told investigator was that he would tell his victims, wait, that.
00;30;52;19 - 00;31;15;24
Unknown
Did I just jump somewhere? I think I said, yeah, okay. No, that's actually something. So, this is just as I know in 1983, in the same recorded message, Ray David told investigators that he would tell his victims that they would be forced to sexually service Cindy. So eventually they obviously got together clearly over their sexual fantasies.
00;31;15;24 - 00;31;53;04
Unknown
Yeah, it was something that I noted probably in the wrong place. But David actually divorced a total of four times. But he had two kids, one of which ended up being his accomplice. These fucking people. Her name is Glenda. Jesse Jean Ray. It's one name. What's interesting, that is in 1986, Jesse tried to actually warn the FBI about her dad, saying that his warning about his criminal activity and claimed that her father was abducting and torturing women and then selling them to buyers in Mexico.
00;31;53;16 - 00;32;27;14
Unknown
my God. Wait. This is kind of bringing to mind, like, not really reminding me, but bringing to mind that Black Mirror episode. Have you guys seen the most recent season? Yeah. The second episode of the most recent season. I know it was a while ago. I don't remember. It's like these kids start to do a true crime documentary and then they realize at the end, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen this, that the the murderer, the mass murderer from their town.
00;32;27;14 - 00;32;47;23
Unknown
Yeah. Was his dad and his mom was doing it too. Like they were they had goofs. They had those. We definitely saw it, but I don't it was such a long time ago because I came out like beginning. They had so they had tapes of what they were doing. They had tapes of what they were doing. And it was yes, yes, yes.
00;32;47;26 - 00;33;08;22
Unknown
Okay. That one gave this took some feeling in my stomach. Yeah, I bet there was. And there must be something from it. Yeah. What's shitty about the the his daughter actually trying to go to the FBI in New Mexico. The allegations ended up being so nonspecific that the FBI were unable to arrest him because they just had nothing to go with.
00;33;08;24 - 00;33;30;20
Unknown
Yeah, what's interesting and I it's there's just not a lot from her in general, but she began partaking in it and began luring young women from clubs to her father's toy bucks by drugging their drinks. But like, if she went to the FBI, like. Like it's just weird that she would still help if she wanted. Yeah, I mean, I don't.
00;33;30;23 - 00;33;45;24
Unknown
And there's not a lot of information like, or like, a dive into, like, her because she's like, people can't find her now. Yeah. I wonder if, like, she just felt like she had to. Yeah. I wonder if it was like a blackmail, like. Yeah. Thing she's like, I tried to go to the FBI. It didn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;33;45;24 - 00;34;16;10
Unknown
I don't. It's interesting because then at that point, you could, like, figure out ways to capture it so that you could be like, Here's proof, here's evidence of what's happening. Well, it's interesting, too, because the police actually discovered that she was partaking because they listened to tapes that he would record her, which I'll get into. So. Okay, this all brings us back to March 22nd of 1999 when Cynthia Vigil was, you know, when she was naked and tortured, running down the road, waited for the police to arrive and the trailer that she was waiting in.
00;34;16;12 - 00;34;41;14
Unknown
So we're back there. So two police officers responded to the call when they arrived. Cynthia was crying hysterically and screaming, my God, I'm alive. I'm alive kind of thing. So Cynthia told the officers that she had been kidnaped by a man who, with a woman, had held her prisoner in a trailer nearby. She said they had tortured her for the last three days with a bizarre collection of sexual and medical instruments and that she managed to get away.
00;34;41;17 - 00;35;11;19
Unknown
So she stated that the male abductor, David, had left the trailer and left the woman in charge of her, but that when the woman who was Cindy had gone to another room, she grabbed the set of keys that they left close by, unlocked the chain that she was fastened to to this pole. And then she said that she spotted her phone, ran to the phone, tried to dial 911, but Cindy spotted her, threw a lamp at her, hit her in the head, which is why she was pouring blood from her head.
00;35;11;21 - 00;35;34;28
Unknown
And then Cynthia, of course, fell down. Cindy got the phone, hung up the phone. But, Cynthia, recover time. I'm you today. I know you sound like Cynthia recovered really quickly. So an ice pick from a box that had fallen over her grabbed it to defend herself and stabs Cindy in the neck. So good for you. Cindy backs off giving Cynthia an opportunity to run out of the front door.
00;35;35;00 - 00;35;54;04
Unknown
You know this poor woman, you know. So Cynthia told police the location of the trailer. However, the police were already on their way to the trailer because the nine on one call did go through and it sounded like a struggle was happening in the call dropped. So the dispatcher was like, something's happening. Go to this address. So they were on their way.
00;35;54;07 - 00;36;18;19
Unknown
So once Cynthia made it to the hospital, it was clear that she had bruises and burn marks from electrical torture. She explained in detail the torture, but the local police were like, this has to be a big thing. But they didn't understand how big it was until they got into this trailer. So Cynthia had welts on her back, punctures to her breasts, cuts, bruises and a big bump on her head from that limp.
00;36;18;21 - 00;36;40;17
Unknown
So Cynthia then told them how she met David. So she, of course, was a sex worker. So she was working as a sex worker in Albuquerque. When David approached her and offered her $20 for for a blowjob in his Toyota RV. So when Cynthia climbed in, she encountered Cindy, who was already in there. Cynthia was like, This is not right.
00;36;40;19 - 00;37;06;25
Unknown
But when she tried to leave, David flashed a badge and told her that she was under arrest for solicitation. This was something that he would do. He would pose as a that's silly. Yeah. So they bound and gagged her, placing duct tape over her mouth and then locked a steel collar around her neck. I now think about the saw movies, because this was, I think, a little bit of inspiration for a song, which I'll tell you, one of the devices that he had in this trailer.
00;37;06;28 - 00;37;22;20
Unknown
But they put that around her neck. They drove several, several hours with her in the back. When they arrived at the trailer, they took her inside and changed her to a pole next to the bed. So they didn't actually take her into the trailer yet. She was actually in their house on the bed. my God. I'm like the living room tied there.
00;37;22;22 - 00;37;40;25
Unknown
Anyway, they then put on a VHS tape and that VHS tape informed her of what was in store. my gosh. This is terrifying. Yeah. And it was him talking on the tape. And we got this is just like 100%. So it stated that she was now their sex slave and she could expect a great deal of abuse.
00;37;40;27 - 00;38;03;28
Unknown
And it's I heard the set the tape because it was a part of this documentary that I watched. It's awful. And he's like laughing in it. It's just disgusting. So anyway, among many other things, he said that she would have sex with animals, be forced, forcibly raped with dildos, have her nipple strips to the fullest, fullest extent. They would go and would have to give oral sex to David whenever he demanded it.
00;38;04;06 - 00;38;40;28
Unknown
my gosh. So she was told other women before her died and she then experienced extreme torture and rape. my God, this poor woman. So all of the other poor women that were before her, you know. So the trailer let's talk about that one. So David actually, as he referred to it, was a torture chamber, but he is who referred to it as his toy box, but he also referred to it as Satan's den, where he had a sign hanging in it that read Satan's Times Are you if you know that you're Satan, just just kill yourself.
00;38;40;29 - 00;39;00;05
Unknown
Right? I'm not going to argue with that, right? Absolutely. Like, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to tell anybody to do it. But if you are really out here saying, yes, I'm Satan and you have a torture chamber, right? Something's wrong with you, Right? You do not need to be here. No. You don't like jail time and start killing all these other people.
00;39;00;14 - 00;39;31;21
Unknown
so anyway, David's toybox was constructed by him for a cost of around $100,000. my gosh. So the trailer was soundproofed and was equipped to serve his twisted purposes and contained a variety of instruments to torture and restrain. This is so like $100,000 in the 1950s? No, this was actually in the nineties. okay. Okay. So that included whips, chains, pulleys, straps, clamps, leg spreading bars, surgical blades, electric shock machines and Jesus.
00;39;31;25 - 00;40;01;09
Unknown
So additional he had sex toys, torture. I don't know what this word is, but torture implements implementing torture, I guess syringes and detailed diagrams showing ways of inflicting pain. Like he just had this. Yeah, just like in there. So the room included a fur lined coffin. my gosh. And the makeshift pillow. Roy, do you guys a pillow?
00;40;01;10 - 00;40;21;01
Unknown
Yeah. Pillory. Do you have something else? No. Okay, so a pillory. Pillory is a device made of wooden or metal framework on a post with holes for securing a person's head and hands. So the head goes through it, and it's like a medieval. Like. Yeah, like when you go to my mind, which is that episode of Sabrina, the teenage bit when they like, had to go to Salem.
00;40;21;01 - 00;40;39;09
Unknown
Yeah. To be Yeah. If they had to pretend like somebody was Whip I think yeah. Sabrina was, I remember. Anyway it's to that so he had that in there that is creamy. And then it was like the fur line cuff and like she would like it anyway. So there were elaborate locks and pulleys to prevent people from escaping.
00;40;39;12 - 00;40;58;10
Unknown
There was a mirror on the ceiling over a gynecological table which forced the victims to watch crimes being forced upon them. David my God, this is so fucked up. You know, David wanted his victims to watch what he was doing to them. David would also involve his own dogs in the rape of his victims. my gosh.
00;40;58;12 - 00;41;27;19
Unknown
So, yeah, he employed psychological tactics to instill fear and maintain control over his victims. He and several accomplices, which included his girlfriend, Cindy Hindi, his daughter Jessie Ray, and an associate named Dennis Roy Yancey. So David has said he would occasionally release his victims, abandoning them on the side of a country road after severely drugging them with the barbiturates to induce amnesia, which worked.
00;41;27;26 - 00;41;55;09
Unknown
my gosh. And it would prevent them from remembering and reporting the assaults because they would just be like, What the fuck? my gosh, Did it say how many people he did that too? So like, there's women out there that don't even know, my gosh, that it's awful, but it's even more vast than that. So in March of 1999, obviously, when this whole thing happened with Cynthia, the police arrived at the trailer and arrested both David and Cindy as they were attempting to leave, because, again, that night on one call.
00;41;55;11 - 00;42;20;19
Unknown
Yeah. Had Yeah. Sent them there. So let's talk about the evidence in the investigation. This trailer is sick. The house was sick. They had like when they got to the house where that woman was tied up and since. And Cynthia was alone in Cynthia white shirt. Yeah, Cynthia was tied up in the bed. No way. No, I need to look at what's her name?
00;42;20;19 - 00;42;37;13
Unknown
Neema. yeah, it was Cynthia. God. And the other woman's name was Cindy. Yeah. Okay. The where she was set up on the bed with the pole and all that kind of stuff. There was a bucket with her feces and know, my gosh, because they were, like, holding her there. The broken lamp was there. It was just like a mess.
00;42;37;13 - 00;43;01;07
Unknown
Yeah, kind of in the house. But then they go out to this trailer and it is was Cindy not there anymore with her pickax? No, she was still there. They were like leaving. okay. She didn't die. So here's what they found. the trailer was just so at the back of the trailer. Was that gynecological chair? Yeah, right.
00;43;01;07 - 00;43;20;05
Unknown
And then there were just hooks, and I can't even imagine being the them, the police officers. What was into the scene? No, I mean, it was horrifying. Like you're literally walking into somebody's nightmare. Yeah, they had a so this pull that spread somebody's legs apart and then they had this thing, this device that they would shove up kind of thing.
00;43;20;05 - 00;43;46;04
Unknown
But there were nails at the bottom of it like it was it was just awful. But they ended up finding a diary that David kept in where he detailed everything he did to his victims. But he did not disclose who they were, where the bodies were buried for the ones that he murdered. So it was I feel like this is a through line with these creepy people is that they keep diaries.
00;43;46;07 - 00;44;09;27
Unknown
Yeah. Or something. Do they do that that's such a it's because they want to be able to like remember it and go back and like, ooh, I think about it. It's, it's fucking fucking gross. so the investigation also found to have two cameras that were set up in the trailer. So here's what's interesting. They found a lot of tapes, but nothing were really on them.
00;44;10;00 - 00;44;36;13
Unknown
But they found one tape showing David explaining how to use everything in the room as they're watching the tape. It cut out, went black like so he could remember it. I don't know, whatever this like was this like a training video for It was kind of like that. That's fucking weird. So they're watching it. The tape goes out, and then all of a sudden the tape comes back on and there was a victim in the trailer.
00;44;36;15 - 00;44;58;06
Unknown
The victim looked to be not coherent because this was a drug. Totally like a movie. Yeah, he's like, softly touching her and stuff. It's just. But she's obviously, like, bound and all this stuff. It was just gross. But they couldn't identify who the actual victim was, was they watched to all of a sudden they see a tattoo pop up on the woman and they're like, okay, wait.
00;44;58;08 - 00;45;16;16
Unknown
So the police took the tape to the FBI who were able to enhance it, and then they provided the media with the tattoo, the picture of the tattoo. And a woman came forward and said, That's that's my tattoo. my God. I thought her name. my gosh. Yeah, her name was Kelly Van Cleve. She had no recollection of it.
00;45;16;21 - 00;45;43;22
Unknown
my gosh. Yeah. But she was a friend of David's daughter, Jessie, so fuck you, friend. Yeah. There's something else with that as well. There was this woman named Terry Parker, who was another victim and friend of Jessie, his daughter, who went missing not too long after Kelly was, you know, returned. what's interesting is, this all came about when he was already obviously under arrest, right?
00;45;43;22 - 00;45;59;21
Unknown
And they were like, Hey, do you know who this Mary Parker is? And David was like, No, I don't. I don't know who that is. It's like, that was like the girl that went missing from a club not that long ago, Right. Kind of thing. So the police already knew that Jessie Rae, his daughter, was with this guy, Dennis Roy Yancey, which I said his name earlier.
00;45;59;21 - 00;46;19;21
Unknown
Yeah, It was one of those accomplices at the bar the night that Marie Parker disappeared. So police brought him in for questioning. He broke right away, and he said that he knew that David was known for raping, torturing and killing women for years and then admitted that he was actually instructed by David to kill Marie by strangulation. And so fuck you, dude.
00;46;19;26 - 00;46;35;09
Unknown
Yeah, you you, you had all of these chances to be able to turn this guy in and you didn't do anything. Well, he was an accomplice. I'm sure he liked it. for sure. He obviously got a kick out of it. Yeah. So asked Roy to take them to the body of Marie, because this whole time they couldn't prove anything in general.
00;46;35;10 - 00;46;55;20
Unknown
Because this woman, Cynthia, who was the one that was running down the country road, was a heroin addict. And so they were like, she's unbelievable. So they didn't, like, pursue because just because he was on heroin or a heroin addict, they just see that it's all bullshit. They didn't they knew the jury won. So they were like, we can't we can't convict him of just this.
00;46;55;20 - 00;47;13;11
Unknown
So we need somebody who also fucked up. So then the Kelley woman came forward and she was like, I don't remember all of this, but I remember she started getting some memories back, but she was having all these nightmares of being tortured at night and like, got kind of grew this fear. It was her memory. No way. And that was why.
00;47;13;14 - 00;47;38;02
Unknown
Yeah, that's so I have so many questions like, so she's of the ones that had the amnesia. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. But like, what? She just, like, woke up in the middle of nowhere, so apparently she dropped her back off at home because she's a she. Yeah. So she just. Yeah, I don't know. It's like woke up on her front porch or.
00;47;38;03 - 00;48;02;26
Unknown
Yeah. Like something it didn't go to too into it but she just didn't recall like much. But then it started to come back to her because she remembered being at the bar that but then like not a lot after. Yeah. So and that's because Jessie took her dad's house and all that stuff. So, anyway, the police were like, okay, this other woman is a little bit more credible, but she still doesn't remember everything.
00;48;02;26 - 00;48;16;28
Unknown
So they're going to like, poke holes in this. And so they're like, So let's find a body like that will help this case. So they asked Roy, like, take us to the body. He's like, I can take you to the body where David talked or David took me to dump it or whatever. So they go to the location.
00;48;16;28 - 00;48;38;21
Unknown
The is not there. And so he's like, David must have located this. Yeah, because he didn't want anybody to know where that was. So here's what's interesting. Remember I said earlier that he was like a maintenance worker for like the state parks he had access to everywhere, even where people were not allowed to go. So where he could potentially hide bodies could have been thousands of just stupid.
00;48;38;22 - 00;48;57;00
Unknown
Yeah. So, okay, let's jump back to what else they found in the trailer. So his instructional video that I talked about was also found where he claimed to have murdered a whole bunch of women. But it also described that the women were there against his will because in the video or in the video, he was just like, you're here against your will.
00;48;57;02 - 00;49;14;12
Unknown
And he even saw the video starts with him being like, hey, bitch kind of thing. It's of in this. You said you saw this. Did you listen to it? I listened to some of it, yeah. They played some of it in this documentary. So police also found a map in the trailer with a whole bunch of X's on it.
00;49;14;15 - 00;49;31;15
Unknown
And so because it was by the reservoir, there were X's on that. So they went in. He had a sailboat, so they went to that reservoir on a whole bunch of dimensions, but they were never able to locate any evidence that would connect. David to it. So David, like I said, had access to all those remote locations due to his job.
00;49;31;17 - 00;49;55;09
Unknown
And so he could hide bodies. I mean, really well. So anyway, he was cut and all that kind of stuff and eventually and I'll go through kind of the arrests and all that. But he eventually confessed to dumping corpses of his victims in the nearby reservoir and just like all over these places. And he also referred to a number of his accomplices in the tapes, which is how they kind of knew those other people as well.
00;49;55;13 - 00;50;21;06
Unknown
But according to Cindy, remember, Cindy was his girlfriend, the other accomplice? Yeah. The victims that were killed were dismembered and buried, dumped in the Alpha Elephant Butte Lake or in nearby ravines. So this is desert, right? These are bodies are not going to last long in the desert. Just don't. So after his arrest, David did. After his arrest and conviction, all that David did agree actually to take people in.
00;50;21;06 - 00;50;47;25
Unknown
So the authorities where the bodies were buried. But he died right before he could do it. So here's this interesting you're saying, how did he die? I'll tell you. So here's some convictions in general. So David Parker originally said, I want to tell you about the. Yeah, I have a right here. So originally, lo his trial was focused only on Kelly's rape and torture.
00;50;48;00 - 00;51;06;01
Unknown
So Kelly was the one that the memories kind of came back. Yeah. Who was on the video? But the trial came out in a hung jury, so he was not convicted in the first trial. So. And the reason that he wasn't was because the original jury was not able to hear the instructional video because the judge was like, no, that can't be that such bullshit.
00;51;06;02 - 00;51;29;25
Unknown
I know that is like a key piece of evidence, you know, So the the case, was retried with a different jury and judge where the tape was admissible. And then, of course, he was he was convicted. Okay. So he was found guilty of rape, torture and sentenced in 2001 to 224 years in prison for the abduction, rape and torture of three women total.
00;51;29;27 - 00;52;03;01
Unknown
So, Cynthia, Angelica montano and Kelly Garrett. And Angelica was another woman who came forward who remembered him. So, he eventually actually gave up his right to an appeal to obtain leniency for his daughter. So she was released without trial in Kelly's abduction. But her story doesn't end there. Cindy, the girlfriend, testified against David, but received 36 years for her role in the crimes that she was scheduled to receive Pearl in 2017, but eventually was released in 2019 after serving two years of her parole in prison.
00;52;03;01 - 00;52;23;04
Unknown
So Miss Cindy Bundy said of that, I'm sorry. my gosh, she should have been in prison the rest of her life. Agreed. There's some, but there's a reason why that is not and how this gets a little bit fucked up because nobody's ever been recovered. None. And he's thought to have killed 60 people. 60 women. And that's not even the ones that he released.
00;52;23;04 - 00;52;44;13
Unknown
Yeah. So Jesse Ray, his daughter, was still charged with kidnaping and criminal sexual penetration where she pleaded no contest and received a 30 month sentence with an additional five years to be served on probation. What? No one knows where she is now. Yeah. And then Dennis, where he. Nancy, the one who was like, Yeah, I strangled that woman.
00;52;44;15 - 00;53;04;06
Unknown
Pleaded guilty to the 1997 murder of Marie Parker and Elephant Butte and confessed to helping Jesse Ray Jesse lure her into captivity in her father's trailer. He said David is who forced him to strangle her to death. He was also charged with kidnaping, two counts of conspiracy to commit a crime and tampering with evidence. He was sentenced to 30 years.
00;53;04;09 - 00;53;22;15
Unknown
In 2010. He was paroled after serving 11 years in prison. Three months after his release, he was charged with violating his parole, where he was then put back into custody. He served the rest of his time. He's been out since 2021. Yet we have people who have been in prison for their whole lives for marijuana. Marijuana's so fucking stupid.
00;53;22;15 - 00;53;58;26
Unknown
We get nervous when there are people in these cases that are like out and about and like if they listen to this podcast, like, I'm like, I don't listen to this podcast, same thing, right? And then may so May 28th, 2022. Sorry, that's actually not accurate. So not too long after his I think it's 2002 or 2001. Anyway, David, after he was convicted, like he served only eight months and he ended up dying in prison from a heart attack and he died with all of those secrets that.
00;53;58;26 - 00;54;17;24
Unknown
So I hate that. I lived for years and years and years and what a horrible life in prison. I know, I know. But like, thank you. At this point, you're already in prison. Why don't you just tell everybody what happened? You know, like you're already going to be there for the rest of your life. Just. Yeah. Now you have tons of people not knowing.
00;54;17;24 - 00;54;40;01
Unknown
I don't ever understand why they don't just say a lifetime in prison versus 220, Right? It's like, no, because you never know. Like, say, and he was already old. Like, so stupid. What's interesting is that in February of 2011, the Albuquerque FBI released hundreds of images of items that were collected during the investigation of David Parker. And they were jewelry.
00;54;40;07 - 00;55;00;20
Unknown
They were like jewelry and clothing of hundreds of items. And they were like, These belong to someone. So they sent them out in the world to be like, Do you identify or are these any any of this? Yeah. So the FBI believes that some of the items which included jewelry and clothes have been taken from victims and are seeking the public to see if they recognize any of the items.
00;55;00;20 - 00;55;19;14
Unknown
Look at this and she's yeah so that was that is all right when you were writing it you took this is like the longest I think I've seen you take on the story. Yeah. And I was like, okay, this is going to be a good one. I did not expect that it was this SC one and I didn't like it at all.
00;55;19;17 - 00;55;39;19
Unknown
And you can actually watch a little documentary on it on YouTube, which is what I watched. It basically goes into everything that I did, although I did all of it, and then watched the documentary, which was all kind of the same. But it was it's a it's a messed up one. And there's some interesting stuff in New Mexico.
00;55;39;19 - 00;55;58;20
Unknown
I'm going to do another serial killer in New Mexico that I actually has yet to be found, which is creepy. But yeah, this one was like, scary. Yeah, that's terrifying. Yeah. And they interviewed a couple of his coworkers because he was a mechanic and they were like, he was a great guy. And so really, he really just, like, hid.
00;55;58;22 - 00;56;19;13
Unknown
Yeah, it's like weird. Interesting though, because we have some parallels in our story and I feel like that happens a lot. Yeah, that's weird. So I'm excited to like, Have you hear what I am excited. I have. I'm excited. All right. Well, that was. Yeah. David, your mustache is ugly. Also, he was really fucking ugly. And I want to see his mustache.
00;56;19;16 - 00;56;36;11
Unknown
It'll be on the cover, art, but I want to see it now. He was like, you can. You the if you were going to think of somebody, what somebody looks like that was doing all this like rape, torture shit, you would be it. Yeah. Like it was scary. I did think it was interesting because I've only ever seen one of the summer movies.
00;56;36;11 - 00;56;53;21
Unknown
Yeah, because I can't watch that. my God. This is one thing that I forgot. He had a device in there where it was a box where he would put it on someone's head to orient them. The locked box. yeah. It's not fucking terrifying. But I also think that was like a part of this. All movies you remember.
00;56;53;24 - 00;57;15;25
Unknown
But anyway, yeah, there was. I can't watch that kind of shit because it's. I just don't like it. But this really reminded me of some of that. So yeah, it was like, no, it sounds like a horror movie. It's like, my God, it's pretty bad. So anyway, that was, that was mine. Are you ready? Yeah, I guess.
00;57;18;26 - 00;57;45;00
Unknown
so, Brandon, tell us your title of your. Yeah. So again, so again, my title is Saliva and Sorcery. Yeah. Okay. So I'm just going to go right into it. So on April 24th, 1997, a 24 year old woman named Siri Kamala Dewey called on a rickshaw driver named Andrius to take her to the home of Ahmed Sarangi, the local Dukan.
00;57;45;02 - 00;58;01;18
Unknown
So I have a note in here about where we are, but I should probably out of here. So the story is based out of Indonesia, so you might be thinking, What's the Dukan? Because I was so I have a some notes in here, so I'm going to dive a little bit into that before I get too deep into the story.
00;58;01;18 - 00;58;36;07
Unknown
So so in Indonesia, the term Dukan is another term for a shaman sorcerer or sometimes even witch doctor, and they're known to be a traditional healer, healer, like I literally just said I was going to mumble anyways. They're known to be a traditional healer, a spirit medium, and can also be known to access black magic. So a Dukan may use herbalism incantation, incantations, chants, inanimate objects, charms and even animal parts to help heal and bless people.
00;58;36;09 - 00;59;00;27
Unknown
They are known to communicate with evil spirits, to help to help people who are in need of an exorcism. They're also known to be soothsayers that can have visions by connecting with one's relatives that have passed on. And some can even place revenge on people by performing incantations in hexes and according to Wikipedia article. So again, this is Wikipedia.
00;59;00;29 - 00;59;30;06
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. So some of the hexes include that the Dukan would arrange incense, opium, nails, glass and needles in a half circle and then ask the spirits to embed the items in in the the victim's stomach. The Dukan will chant their patients name so that the target cannot rest until they are cured by another Dukan. They can help their patients implant emotions into their target so they can.
00;59;30;09 - 00;59;58;13
Unknown
It could be something simple like like nice love spells or even emotions of murder in hopes that they actually murder someone. Emotions of murder. Yes. Yes. What are emotions and feeling and emotion of murder? I think I would say murder and murder. It's really I know I probably should have changed the wording in that. No, I like to live or die in that moment because of that.
00;59;58;13 - 01;00;28;26
Unknown
So thank you. You're welcome. So they can cause pain and even death to the target. I don't know how, but they can. They can cause people to fall under a deep, unshakable slumber. there's another ritual that also involves the half circle of opium incense, but it also includes food instead of the rest. Well, so while that's in the half circle, the Duke enchants for the target to suffer from headaches, vomiting and illness until they're remedied by another Dukan.
01;00;28;28 - 01;00;49;01
Unknown
And then there's another ritual where the Duke implants an enchanted metal needle into the patient's body, which they say the spirit helps them not to leave a wound in this treatment. It's supposed to make their patient more attractive, and it could also be used for making a person less physically vulnerable. So that's like the only good thing, right?
01;00;49;06 - 01;01;08;26
Unknown
I know that there's other things that they do do, but that's just some of the hexes that they do. So now the Dukan is obviously an ancient practice that many people hold to high regard. Even past presidents of Indonesia, statesmen, sultans and more are known to visit them. However, there is many believe that they are just criminals and preying on weak people.
01;01;08;29 - 01;01;32;11
Unknown
Is it weird that when you said Sultan, My mind went right to a lot of it. It wasn't for me to. It that's America for you to be a duke. You can either inherit the position by being born into a family, but how to do can, or you can learn the customs by people who inherited the position. But but people who inherited the position are held at a higher regard because they were born into it.
01;01;32;12 - 01;01;54;16
Unknown
Yeah. So Dewi Dewi was the woman in the beginning, I'll say her name again, Siri. Kamala Dewi she was looking for her own good fortune and she knew that she would be able to find it with Ahmed. However, like many that visited Ahmed, she kept her visit from her family and friends as a secret. Since many didn't believe in the Durkin's abilities.
01;01;54;19 - 01;02;16;03
Unknown
So asking Andreas, the rickshaw driver, to keep the trip a secret and she let him know that she wouldn't need a ride back. So she dropped. So he dropped her off and went on his way, not knowing that he would be the last one to see her alive. there's a fuss. I'm like, What are you doing? Anyways?
01;02;16;06 - 01;02;46;00
Unknown
Three days later, a neighbor of Ahmed's was foraging in the large circa sugarcane field near Ahmed's house for some weeds to feed his livestock. As this man walked to the field, he was confused when he stumbled upon the mount, a mound in the dirt. Upon further investigations, he saw something shocking. And it was the decomposing body of Siri, Kamala Dewi in the displaced mud from the rainstorm from the night prior, not to take away from the decomposing body, but the word foraging always sends me in a loop.
01;02;46;00 - 01;03;10;10
Unknown
And I'm not striking because I just envision people like, I don't know, in the forest just I don't know. That's exactly what you're just you're correct. You are 100% accurate in your vision of what foraging means. I'm just telling you that whenever I hear the word, the movie starts playing in my mind and I can't think of anything other than people are foraging.
01;03;10;12 - 01;03;40;26
Unknown
I mean, isn't that the point of telling a story? Yes. But so that I missed all of the decomposing body because I just it foraging, visiting somebody like those plans. But it's funny because from what I'm envisioning about your thoughts, it's like a Disney characters like la la la la la la. My mind went to ever after. And they're like, you know, there's birds like flying and chirping and squirrels coming up to talk to you.
01;03;41;04 - 01;04;05;10
Unknown
my God. I need I need medication. Okay. Anyways, so I'm just kidding. So I'm going to switch a little bit and talk about Ahmed. So Ahmed was born January 10th, 1949, 19 1949. But who's Ahmed? Ahmed? Is the duck in? yeah. You weren't listening. No, I'm just kidding. That was that was way in the beginning. So there's a lot of words.
01;04;05;11 - 01;04;27;17
Unknown
So they went to she went to the Dickens house. Ahmed Siraj Got it. Okay. So Ahmed was born on January ten, 1949, and lived in North Sumatra, Indonesia. I didn't see too much about his past, but Ahmed was known to be a rebel as a child who had a hard time making friends. And by the age of 19, he ran away from home and was jailed for ten years for violent behavior.
01;04;27;19 - 01;04;51;29
Unknown
But I'm not sure what that violent behavior was because I didn't it there wasn't much about it, so it had to have been pretty bad if he was jailed for ten years. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know, right? I mean, he ends up being a great guy, so. So, Ahmed eventually settled down and became a cattle breeder and married three women who happened to all be sisters.
01;04;52;16 - 01;05;14;19
Unknown
and I have no in here. This is polygamy is not illegal in Indonesia. but there are a few different contradictory things, but it has to do with the religion and there's a few different religions that some accept it, some don't accept it in Indonesia. So we could be really well like my, my biological family, my biological grandma married, are not married but have kids with two brothers.
01;05;14;19 - 01;05;41;03
Unknown
Yeah, but that was at two separate times. These they were married at the same time. All three like three sisters and they were sisters. Married. 2 to 1. Yeah. Bordering. Yeah. Yeah. Right. you're fine with my husband. Like, it's weird. yeah. My husband. My brother in law as well. Yeah. Yeah, That's really fucking weird. All right, so after some time of, of life as a cattle breeder has, it kind of got a little bit boring.
01;05;41;05 - 01;05;58;14
Unknown
And so I saw. I saw some contradictory stuff out there. Some made it sound like he had kind of like a career change to become a deacon. And then I saw some that said he was born into a family where his father was a deacon. So at some point he decided to become one from cattle breeder. To do that, you love that.
01;05;58;14 - 01;06;20;29
Unknown
You can just become one. Okay. Right. and I have a note in here that all wives are sisters. So I said that at the same. I have two notes of the same note in here. Anyways, so becoming a deacon for Ahmed, his specialties were the creation of a love potion that was a solution to marital and fertility problems.
01;06;21;01 - 01;06;42;29
Unknown
And he would help women who were looking for a for good fortune into maintaining their youth. and he was pretty popular for the area. According to one source I saw, he made roughly 200 to $400 for every service, and people would come see him from all different regions. And I saw some notes where like the the neighborhood, everybody in the neighborhood thought he was such a great guy.
01;06;43;01 - 01;07;08;24
Unknown
Just like yours, where people just thought he was kind. But it seemed. Yeah. So this is where it starts to get a little odd. So at some point in Ahmed's journey, he had a dream of of his father who was already passed away. And that doesn't that never ends well. Exactly. So in this dream, the ghost of his father, who also happened to be a shaman, told him that he would be that that Ahmed could be a great healer.
01;07;08;26 - 01;07;33;02
Unknown
But to do so, he would need to drink the saliva of 70 women and that the saliva would help him grow his powers. So saliva and sorcery, I feel like that's just going to give you a disease, right? Right. I don't know. Like I don't like how thick saliva is. Like, it just reminds me of that time we did the Ancestry.com thing.
01;07;33;02 - 01;07;57;00
Unknown
You only get a spit in the tube. Yeah, it's basically drinking. Yeah. So Taking this vision as something that he actually had to do because, again, he was a deacon. So he had. He had visions and all this stuff. he figured it was something that he needed to do, but he thought, well, 70 people, that's a lot.
01;07;57;00 - 01;08;16;06
Unknown
How do I get away with this? So he found an easier way to do it, which was to murder them. Okay. I don't know that that's easier. What's easier? I'm going to kill you for your saliva. Be like, Can you just spit in this cup for me? Literally. Yeah. Yeah. But again, this is a man who had a dream to drink saliva, so.
01;08;16;06 - 01;08;43;26
Unknown
But those, like, if you and people have weird dreams, but like, a normal person would be like, what the fuck, right? No normal person would then like, Google it and be like, What is that? He was telling me to drink people's saliva because I'm like, pursuing that. Exactly. I don't. Yeah. So, okay, so he would often choose women who are coming to him looking to gain more, to gain more attractive men, desire to be more sexually attractive and to have more money.
01;08;43;28 - 01;09;07;23
Unknown
Most happen to be sex workers. So again, another correlation. He figured that these women were less dangerous as victims because there wouldn't be many people looking for them. And I did see a note where he would have people come to him and it was getting slow. He go out and find a sex worker to bring back so he would lure women to his home and into the sugarcane field nearby.
01;09;07;23 - 01;09;27;11
Unknown
He would basically like tell them where to go. And so as they walked into the field, he would direct them into a pre dug hole in the ground. He would ask them to ask them to start ritual that they would need to get inside of the hole. In the hole was always roughly to shoulder level of the person.
01;09;27;13 - 01;09;50;07
Unknown
So from there he would fill the hole around them all while reassuring them about the ritual. Eventually the woman would be trapped in the dirt, making them immobile. And again they would just be their heads out the soil. Yeah, he would then grab a cable and choke them and strangle them to death. So once the woman was dead, he would gather saliva dripping from their mouth and drink it.
01;09;50;07 - 01;10;12;19
Unknown
Lord Yes, he would then remove the body, remove the clothing, and then bury them, bury the body in the ground in believing that the position of the body could help him gain more power. He would face his victims heads towards his, so he would be able to collect the power from their body because they were looking at him.
01;10;12;28 - 01;10;39;24
Unknown
my God. Yeah. All the while, his three wives sat by and helped with his plans. So another odd fucking correlation, asshole. Yeah. So jumping back to 1977 with theory, Kamala do. His body was found in the sugarcane field. The neighbor, did you say 1977 or 1997? I don't know, but it's 1997, so If I said it wrong, it's 1997.
01;10;39;26 - 01;11;08;21
Unknown
So the neighbor ended up getting a group of people nearby together, and they dug up the body from the mud. Then they contacted the municipal police unit. The police pretty quickly came and they ended up talking to Andre as the rickshaw driver and Andre has told them everything that he knew. So they went to Ahmed's home, where they where he quickly denied all the allegations until the police found her handbag, her dress and bracelets inside the home.
01;11;08;23 - 01;11;44;25
Unknown
So on April 20th, 1997, Ahmed was arrested and brought in for interrogation. Pretty quickly, he confessed to killing Dewey and 15 other women. During the investigation, the police realized that the number that he told them was completely wrong. And in Ahmed's house found the belongings of up to 25 missing women. Presented with this information, Ahmed changed his story again and he admitted to killing 42 women within the last 11 years, all which he buried in the backyard with them, all facing face first towards his house.
01;11;44;28 - 01;12;07;15
Unknown
So the women's ranged in ages from 11 to 40. So from here, the police ended up bringing bringing in an excavator and started digging. Overall, they found five decomposing, decomposing bodies in the bones of 37 others. And David, know, again, that they were facing all facing the house. So Yeah. And it was all like a for this ritual practice.
01;12;07;15 - 01;12;27;26
Unknown
So the community went crazy. And over 80 families in the area had reported missing. Women leading the public to think that there is more than just the 42 that he admitted to. However, because of the decomposing decomposition and the lack of DNA, there was little they could do to identify the bodies. So on December 11th, 1997, the trial began.
01;12;27;29 - 01;12;50;23
Unknown
However, to no one's surprise, he was convicted to the murders of all 42 women. And as I said before, his wives were also in on it. So all three women were convicted of of of helping with the murders. Two of the wives were sentenced to life in prison and the oldest was sentenced to death. However, she claims that she confessed under torture by the police in her sentence was later changed to life in prison.
01;12;50;26 - 01;13;09;25
Unknown
So as for Ahmed, he was sentenced to death. So July 10th, 28, he was sent to a to line lineup and he was executed by firing squad one. Yeah. So I have a couple of interesting facts, just two of them. So one is that in the investigation, they were not able to establish any sexual assault on the victims.
01;13;10;01 - 01;13;27;28
Unknown
And Ahmed also denied any accusations of assault. He said that he just wanted to earn money and power by killing the women. And so he also told the police that my father did not specifically advise to kill people. So I was just thinking it would take it would just take ages if I had to wait to get 70 women.
01;13;28;01 - 01;13;46;16
Unknown
So I was trying to get to it as far as fast as possible I took my own initiative to kill it. That's just not you can't convince me it's going to be faster to murder all of these women than it just would be to come up with some sort of plan, get you just lie about like, Hey, I got a weird fetish.
01;13;46;16 - 01;14;18;17
Unknown
Could you spit in this cup? Like, here's the thing. Maybe it is a fetish, an ancestor they're just swallowing people's saliva. Yeah, just kidding. Ancestry. No, but that's some weirdo in the back. Just like. delicious. God. But yeah, that's like the thickness, the butt. But how awful. The people that people believe in this, like, practice and they go, they're trusting somebody and you know, they're in a holding beard and they're like, Yeah, man, yeah, this is great.
01;14;18;17 - 01;14;55;29
Unknown
I'm going to get the, you know, And I just people are horrible. People are fucking awful, right? And people already, I guess, trusted that he was a duke. Yeah. Yeah. So why did he have to do all of. I don't know. It's so get more powerful power. Yeah. He could be more powerful. He could have been like, All right, as part of this, I do need you to give me a I'm sure if the native a couple I'm sure if they already thought that he was a duke and then he could have just, like, persuaded them totally to be like, for this ritual for me to help you look prettier.
01;14;55;29 - 01;15;15;05
Unknown
Not that that still couldn't have been a creepy ass. It would still be 100%. But it's still better than killing. Yeah, but also, I think that this is just something to for women to remember that men are fucking weird. Yes. And gross. And they're not going to make you prettier. They know they suck. Yeah. And you're pretty enough.
01;15;15;09 - 01;15;34;24
Unknown
Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Well, that sucked. Yeah, right, Right. So when we were talking, I'm like, I think you're another one. That's real fucked up compared to mine. I'm like, Man, so kind of weird. But yours was fucked up too, right? I do love that he was died by firing squad. I did what I saw that I kind of chuckled out loud, so I'm not like I don't.
01;15;34;29 - 01;15;49;29
Unknown
I'm conflicted when it comes to the death penalty because I kind of believe, like, if you're going to fuck with somebody, then you should. I mean, if you're going to kill 42 people or 60 people who die, I know I something where you say, don't feel bad. I don't remember it. It was it might have been like the last episode where the father what was the last episode?
01;15;50;01 - 01;16;09;16
Unknown
What we do was really just a traumatic one. it was the story that Britney told you about her friend. I don't actually know. And that was our last one. I was reading something about a father didn't want the person who had killed, I think, his daughter to go through the death penalty. that was my story.
01;16;09;16 - 01;16;31;07
Unknown
What's that? Your story? Yeah. I didn't believe in the death penalty. And I'm like, Well I do think there is something to be said for, like, the death penalty does put a sort of like another layer of trauma on to the victim, knew the victims because then they have to take on like, yes, I think this person was a piece of shit and they should have died.
01;16;31;07 - 01;16;50;15
Unknown
But also now I feel like I am I played a part in another person dying. Totally, totally. Yeah. My thoughts about it are I would rather see them rot in jail for a very long time because I think that that is a worse fate than just dying. Because once you die with it, you just. Yeah, so I agree with that.
01;16;50;15 - 01;17;23;29
Unknown
I think that the jail, the prison system is not as horrible, I think, as we think, because there's a lot of accommodations there. I don't know. Well, in just thinking about the way I just looked at myself, Ahmed would be very excited, but I would be like, he's drinking from a hole below you. Just disgusting, but also thinking about like different countries in there different styles of of prison, right?
01;17;23;29 - 01;17;43;17
Unknown
So like in Indonesia, I'm sure it's way different than what it's like. Right. And well, and I sure that's a lot more comfortable in the U.S. and that would be there. But I've never been to jail. I mean, I would like to not even talk to prison. Anybody that I've known who's that? Like my sister who's been in that system, You know, she described it pretty rough.
01;17;43;23 - 01;18;03;25
Unknown
yeah, she did. And so, yeah, I completely agree with that. Like, I think that people should have to live the length of their life is miserable, Right. I think to pay for the consequences to the level of the consequence. If you you know, if you've ever been arrested for marijuana or sitting in jail should be like, I don't believe in living the consequences for like dumb shit.
01;18;03;25 - 01;18;22;01
Unknown
No, no. But if you did what David, whatever his name was, did that David right? Yeah, That's his name. David, right? Yeah. No, he was fucking horrible. Ahmed, too. Like, I just. Yeah, but I think, I mean, well, he, I mean, and it's interesting too, because he died of a heart attack eight months after, so, like, come on, my guy.
01;18;22;03 - 01;18;45;26
Unknown
Like, he's not my guy. Well. GROSS But yeah, like David, David Parker. RAY I think I said. Patrick But. David Parker Yeah, no, like eight months now. Yeah. But also I yeah, I'm just again, I'm conflicted about it because I feel like if somebody tortured and just whatever, it's like, then you should get that. But yeah, well it's hard to not feel like an eye for an eye, right?
01;18;45;26 - 01;19;04;09
Unknown
Like it is. You are an awful person. You deserve to feel that same pain. Right. But then I do agree with the that you have to sit and sulk in it the rest of your life. You're not going anywhere, not coming out from behind these bars. And well, then I think it kind of perpetuates because somebody has to push a button, right?
01;19;04;10 - 01;19;23;17
Unknown
Somebody is doing something. So then they've like done the thing to kill like those things. I'm kind of like, Well, now we're just kind of. Yeah, I feel yeah, I feel like the, like karmic. If you believe in karma, whatever. If you are the person that has to, like, pull the trigger to, kill the person that killed all those people, then you suddenly now to take that to your grave.
01;19;23;17 - 01;19;43;14
Unknown
Yeah. Even if you thought that was a terrible person, you still have to take the fact that you have ended somebody's life. You know, like that. Just which I think is interesting. So, listeners, let us know what you think. I Yeah, I value people's opinions and all that kind of stuff and I'm kind of, I admittedly just that I am conflicted with it.
01;19;43;14 - 01;20;01;13
Unknown
I think it just really kind of depends on some things, but for the most part, don't think I don't think anyone should be murdering anything in general. So that's that. But let us know what you think and tell us why. Yeah, don't argue about it. Just focus on your friend. Thank you. But yeah, that was an interesting one.
01;20;01;19 - 01;20;16;21
Unknown
The saliva thing. I know. Really. That's what I would. I read like the first synopsis of it and they said saliva drinking. I'm like, Yeah, I'm going to do this one. I just like, I can't. Saliva grosses me out, so grosses me out too. Like, my God, I remember when I was younger and dating somebody and they.
01;20;16;23 - 01;20;37;24
Unknown
Have you ever made out with somebody where you're like, this is gross. you know, and then you're just like, well, it's just there's so much spit coming around. and I didn't go on a date again. Well, see, that's gross. Good for me, I guess. Well, know you're great, but I don't know. yeah, Just la la.
01;20;37;26 - 01;20;54;24
Unknown
You're welcome. Listen, I have some weird dreams, and I always wake up being like those fucking where you do have some country. I know. And then I move on and I'm like, That was a dream. And like, something's wrong with my brain. He did. Did we talk about the dream that you like you had of me? That I murdered somebody and you helped to hide the body?
01;20;54;27 - 01;21;07;19
Unknown
Did we talk about that of the podcast? No, that was weird. That's true. I don't told it right now, But glad I told you about it. You're my writer, I guess. Apparently, I don't fuck with Brandon because.
01;21;07;21 - 01;21;25;21
Unknown
Because he may murder you. I don't know. I'm just kidding. But no, I also do remember when I wrestled an alligator to save you, and I think you put it in the heavens. I do remember that dream. You have very vivid dreams. I certainly not the weirdest dreams. My dream last night was really bizarre, too. I think it woke up and told you about that one, right?
01;21;25;23 - 01;21;46;23
Unknown
I don't remember my ex and everything. yeah. As weird as dream. I don't like weird dreams. I wake up and I'm like, way more wine. I don't dream about drinking people saliva, urine or murdering anyone or having you like your dead father. Tell you to drink. To drink someone's body fluids. My dad's not dead, thank God. But no, that's not me.
01;21;46;29 - 01;22;03;23
Unknown
But it's. But I had he like, theoretical. But if he was dead and that's why he came back to say, I'd be like, shut up. Yeah. No, they give in my dad. Shut up. Yeah, I'll do that. I'm. I'm good. Like, yeah, you'd wake up and be like, No, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm right. That dream.
01;22;03;23 - 01;22;25;04
Unknown
I'm ready for coffee. Yep. Like now. Anyway. All right. Well, good episode, Anna. It was so fun. I've missed the fun, though. I didn't really have missed being in person with you. Sorry. Your lives have been so fucking weird. I know. I. We're getting back on the horse. We are getting back on the horse. Hey, Although we're going to be gone for, like, a little bit, but we'll talk about it after.
01;22;25;04 - 01;22;47;10
Unknown
But not that long. But yeah, I'm excited to be back in person too. Just kind of ready for our life to get back to a some sense of calmness. Yeah. Yeah. Ish. I don't know. We've never have a calm life. We've never. I know that Marty situation was really rough for quite a while, you know, ready to. I don't know.
01;22;47;13 - 01;23;04;04
Unknown
You got to get her from below the couch. We do have to crawl under there because I know you're not going to. It's probably not right. I know. You're right. I am. Now, your background. I have to do anything extra. So it was weird being here for two months without you. Yeah, it was weird. It was only a month.
01;23;04;06 - 01;23;25;13
Unknown
Like a month and a half back and forth. I took seven flights in January. that was aggressive. Yeah. I'd like to not do that again. Yeah, no, I'd like to. That was expensive and. And that. Yeah. I got some help points though. Did I think you for me go to Prague for Savannah's wedding. Hi Savannah. I want to see lessons anymore.
01;23;25;15 - 01;23;44;02
Unknown
I've heard them listen in the office. We're talking about our team member and friends. Of course, Savannah Cruz. She is the best. Just love her. I mean, I love our whole team who They all do. They all do a K. Briana. Savannah. Yeah, I think Holman wins too. Listen, you know my parents. I think so. I, my sister, my.
01;23;44;03 - 01;24;01;04
Unknown
Well, yeah, and Bobby and Becca and Beckhams. Rebecca, I hope it's not listening. Well, he's I mean, at this point, especially his little uncles were very much of this their dad.
01;24;01;06 - 01;24;20;14
Unknown
Because I know I would have been like, I don't care. You're just getting by sometimes. Well, that's okay. Whatever. But anyway, everyone, thank you for listening. Yes. And don't forget to rate and subscribe to rave reviews and reviews. We do need some more reviews and ratings. So do that. Thank you, as always, Will. Yeah. All right. Until next week.
01;24;20;14 - 01;24;29;11
Unknown
Goodbye, all.